ECT Once Saved, Always Saved

Exactly.
If it is earned, then it is no longer grace, but debt..


Romans 4:4 KJV
(4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.




Romans 11:6 KJV
(6) And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.




Galatians 2:21 KJV
(21) I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Works done by one's own strength (denying God's grace) and without faith in Jesus Christ are a debt. Abraham's faith was true (living) because of his obedience to God.

By faith he that is called Abraham, obeyed to go out into a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. [9] By faith he abode in the land, dwelling in cottages, with Isaac and Jacob, the co-heirs of the same promise. [10] For he looked for a city that hath foundations; whose builder and maker is God. (Heb. 11:8-10)

Good deeds done in obedience to God are meritorious and salvific as St. Paul says earlier in Romans...

(Rom 2:5-6)

and in many other verses...

(Mat 10:22 (Just added, thanks to Danoh), Mat 19:16-17, Mat 25:31-46, Phil 2:12, Heb. 5:9, Rev. 20:13, Rev. 22:12)
 
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Nope.

He had also said this to them - much earlier...

Matthew 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Exactly. Jesus is stating here that His disciples could fall away from the faith and lose their salvation, and that they must endure to the end of their lives.
 

Danoh

New member
Exactly. Jesus is stating here that His disciples could fall away from the faith and lose their salvation, and that they must endure to the end of their lives.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 8:3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

In short, which of said Twelve Tribes are you from, and under the Law, that you conclude any of that was about you?

Fact of the matter as to an important aspect of all that as Another Study Pronciple?

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

In short, Romans 5:8 and Acts 17:11,12.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Works done by one's own strength (denying God's grace) and without faith in Jesus Christ are a debt. Abraham's faith was true (living) because of his obedience to God.

By faith he that is called Abraham, obeyed to go out into a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. [9] By faith he abode in the land, dwelling in cottages, with Isaac and Jacob, the co-heirs of the same promise. [10] For he looked for a city that hath foundations; whose builder and maker is God. (Heb. 11:8-10)

Good deeds done in obedience to God are meritorious and salvific as St. Paul says earlier in Romans...

(Rom 2:5-6)

and in many other verses...

(Mat 10:22 (Just added, thanks to Danoh), Mat 19:16-17, Mat 25:31-46, Phil 2:12, Heb. 5:9, Rev. 20:13, Rev. 22:12)
Guess again.

Romans 4:1-5 KJV
(1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
(2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
(3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
(4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
(5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
 

vegascowboy

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Yep, it's a question that works salvationists will never answer.
If works salvation is true, we need to know how many is acceptable to pass.

Perhaps it should be put to a vote? Draw straws? I'm hoping for fewer rather than more; it's been a long day and I'm hankering for bubble bath and bed.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Salvation is moving from death to life. He who has died (with Christ) has been freed from sin.

Those who are saved have received the gift of salvation which is the gift of eternal life.

Romans 6:23

Those who have received the gift of eternal life, have eternal life.

Even if they die, they will be raised from the dead, I Thessalonians 4:13-18,and so shall ever be with the Lord.

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance.

God does not regret giving His gifts nor does He want them back.

Once you have eternal life you have eternal life. Life that is eternal.

Next step is to use it, see the second half of I Timothy 2:4 so that we benefit and grow into it even now

I John 5:13
 

God's Truth

New member
Paul. The thief on the cross.

They both had to obey.

The one thief on the cross feared God, believed in Jesus, humbled himself, admitted his sins, which is confession, acknowledged Jesus in front of others, and called on Jesus to save him.

As for Paul, Paul was not saved until he obeyed Jesus.

He was NOT saved on the road to Damascus, when only he believed.

Paul had to obey. He OBEYED and WENT to where Jesus said to go.

Paul had to hear the message that saves.

Paul didn't eat or drink for three days and he spent praying.

Can you imagine those prayers of repentance?

Paul had many women and men dragged out of their homes, beat, put in prison, and tortured, then put to death.

Paul tried to destroy the church.

I can only imagine the heartfelt shame and repentance of Paul. Just imagine the repentance he had done before he was saved while he didn't eat or drink for three days.

He was water baptized, water baptism is a baptism proving repentance of sins.

All have to believe and obey to get saved and to stay saved.
 
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