ECT If By Grace Then It Is No More of Works

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
There are some, like the poster who goes by the name of "God's Truth," who say that the "works of law" in the following verse is only in regard to the ceremonial ordinances of purification under the law of Moses:

"wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin" (Ro.3:20).​

Here Paul speaks of "the works of law" and according to him that law is a "knowledge of sin." It is the moral law which is the knowledge of sin, as witnessed by what Paul said later in the same epistle:

"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet" (Ro.7:7).​

Paul says that it was the moral law (thou shalt not covet) which resulted in him having the knowledge of sin. So in the following verse when Paul refers to "law" he is referring to the moral law:

"wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin" (Ro.3:20).​

Therefore, Paul is saying that no one is declared righteous in the eyes of God by keeping the moral law. Then just eight verses later Paul makes it plain that a person's justification is apart from the works of the same law, the moral law:

"therefore do we reckon a man to be declared righteous by faith, apart from works of law"
(Ro.3:28).​

So according to Paul a person is declared righteous in the eyes of God and that righteouness has nothing to do with keeping the moral law. Paul continues his discourse on this subject where he speaks of the same "works" when speaking of grace:

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness"
(Ro.4:3-5).​

From this we can understand that keeping the moral law plays no part in one's salvation. We can also understand that the "works" in the following passage is also speaking of the moral law:

"So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace"
(Ro.11:6).​
 
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Interplanner

Well-known member
There are some, like the poster who goes by the name of "God's Truth," who say that the "works of law" in the following verse is only in regard to the ceremonial ordinances of purification under the law of Moses:

"wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin" (Ro.3:20).​

Here Paul speaks of "the works of law" and according to him that law is a "knowledge of sin." It is the moral law which is the knowledge of sin, as witnessed by what Paul said later in the same epistle:

"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet" (Ro.7:7).​

Paul says that it was the moral law (thou shalt not covet) which resulted in him having the knowledge of sin. So in the following verse when Paul refers to "law" he is referring to the moral law:

"wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin" (Ro.3:20).​

Therefore, Paul is saying that no one is declared righteous in the eyes of God by keeping the moral law. Then just eight verses later Paul makes it plain that a person's justification is apart from the works of the same law, the moral law:

"therefore do we reckon a man to be declared righteous by faith, apart from works of law"
(Ro.3:28).​

So according to Paul a person is declared righteous in the eyes of God and that righteouness has nothing to do with keeping the moral law. Paul continues his discourse on this subject where he speaks of the same "works" when speaking of grace:

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness"
(Ro.4:3-5).​

From this we can understand that keeping the moral law plays no part in one's salvation. We can also understand that the "works" in the following passage is also speaking of the moral law:

"So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace"
(Ro.11:6).​



It's a good, tight essay, Jerry, thanks. I think there might be people though who want to know what happens if this motivating gift of grace ends up producing nothing in a person's life. Or do you think you have answered that here, too?
 

DAN P

Well-known member
It's a good, tight essay, Jerry, thanks. I think there might be people though who want to know what happens if this motivating gift of grace ends up producing nothing in a person's life. Or do you think you have answered that here, too?



Hi and there are two PERMaises HERE !!

#1 One the wordks of the LAW !!

#2 , And by God"s CHARIS / FAVOR ! which is the MYSTERY , Rom 16:25 and 26 !!


There are two MESSAGES here and Undeniable !!

dan p
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I wonder why "God's Truth" has not even posted on this subject since she thinks that she is an expert on salvation by grace apart from works?

Does she not even want to defend her ideas?

Perhaps she can provide Scriptual support for her teaching that it was the purifying rites of the law of Moses that was responsible for the Jews receiving the knowledge of sin.
 

JudgeRightly

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I wonder why "God's Truth" has not even posted on this subject since she thinks that she is an expert on salvation by grace apart from works?

Does she not even want to defend her ideas?

Perhaps she can provide Scriptual support for her teaching that it was the purifying rites of the law of Moses that was responsible for the Jews receiving the knowledge of sin.
For Israel, the Law was salvation.

Now, for all the world including Israel, grace through faith in God is salvation. Works (obeying the Law) are no longer required, but are evidence of faith.

Spoiler
*For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, *not of works, lest anyone should boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians2:8-9&version=NKJV
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
For Israel, the Law was salvation.

Yes, if they kept it perfectly. Since none of them did keep it perfectly they were saved in the same way that we are, as witnessed by what Paul said here about david:

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Ro.4:5-8).​
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
There are some, like the poster who goes by the name of "God's Truth," who say that the "works of law" in the following verse is only in regard to the ceremonial ordinances of purification under the law of Moses:

"wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin" (Ro.3:20).​

Here Paul speaks of "the works of law" and according to him that law is a "knowledge of sin." It is the moral law which is the knowledge of sin, as witnessed by what Paul said later in the same epistle:

"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet" (Ro.7:7).​

Paul says that it was the moral law (thou shalt not covet) which resulted in him having the knowledge of sin. So in the following verse when Paul refers to "law" he is referring to the moral law:

"wherefore by works of law shall no flesh be declared righteous before Him, for through law is a knowledge of sin" (Ro.3:20).​

Therefore, Paul is saying that no one is declared righteous in the eyes of God by keeping the moral law. Then just eight verses later Paul makes it plain that a person's justification is apart from the works of the same law, the moral law:

"therefore do we reckon a man to be declared righteous by faith, apart from works of law"
(Ro.3:28).​

So according to Paul a person is declared righteous in the eyes of God and that righteouness has nothing to do with keeping the moral law. Paul continues his discourse on this subject where he speaks of the same "works" when speaking of grace:

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness"
(Ro.4:3-5).​

From this we can understand that keeping the moral law plays no part in one's salvation. We can also understand that the "works" in the following passage is also speaking of the moral law:

"So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace"
(Ro.11:6).​

:first:
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
It's a good, tight essay, Jerry, thanks. I think there might be people though who want to know what happens if this motivating gift of grace ends up producing nothing in a person's life. Or do you think you have answered that here, too?

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
It's a good, tight essay, Jerry, thanks. I think there might be people though who want to know what happens if this motivating gift of grace ends up producing nothing in a person's life. Or do you think you have answered that here, too?

Who is to judge "produces nothing"? There are loads and loads of unseen things in everyone's life, and causes and effects we have no clue about.
 

Patrick Cronin

New member
Jerry, I quote your words :
“according to Paul a person is declared righteous in the eyes of God and that righteouness has nothing to do with keeping the moral law.”
The Scriptures are quite clear that salvation (grace) is totally undeserved gift of God, which cannot be earned. This is also the teaching of the Catholic Church.
But to say that “righteousness has nothing to do with keeping the moral law” is seriously misleading because it implies that there are no conditions to be fulfilled by the one who receives the grace. You cannot be saying that people can become righteous without repenting? “Unless you repent you will perish like they did..”(Luke 13:1-9).
Of course it is not the repentance which CAUSES the righteousness.
It is sin which causes unrighteousness and persistence in sin is opposed to grace. So the truth is not “either grace or obedience” it is ‘both and”.
Patrick Cronin.
 

Patrick Cronin

New member
Jerry, I quote your words :
“according to Paul a person is declared righteous in the eyes of God and that righteouness has nothing to do with keeping the moral law.”
The Scriptures are quite clear that salvation (grace) is totally undeserved gift of God, which cannot be earned. This is also the teaching of the Catholic Church.
But to say that “righteousness has nothing to do with keeping the moral law” is seriously misleading because it implies that there are no conditions to be fulfilled by the one who receives the grace. You cannot be saying that people can become righteous without repenting? “Unless you repent you will perish like they did..”(Luke 13:1-9).
Of course it is not the repentance which CAUSES the righteousness.
It is sin which causes unrighteousness and persistence in sin is opposed to grace. So the truth is not “either grace or obedience” it is ‘both and”.
Patrick Cronin.
 
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