ECT Words have meaning unless of course you have bit into the lie of MAD.

dodge

New member
In the past few days I was told "today" does NOT mean "today", which of course is WRONG.

Ref. Today you will be with me in paradise as Jesus told the crucified thief next to Him.

Tonight I was told "world" does not mean "world" but it means the lost sheep of Israel.

Ref. Jn.:3:16


If I was in a group ANY group that started changing the meaning of words in scripture I would find a church that preached the scripture without changing scripture to fit a particular doctrine.

There are more words changed by MAD to make their beliefs work, but you get the general idea.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
In the past few days I was told "today" does NOT mean "today", which of course is WRONG.

Ref. Today you will be with me in paradise as Jesus told the crucified thief next to Him.

Tonight I was told "world" does not mean "world" but it means the lost sheep of Israel.

Ref. Jn.:3:16


If I was in a group ANY group that started changing the meaning of words in scripture I would find a church that preached the scripture without changing scripture to fit a particular doctrine.

There are more words changed by MAD to make their beliefs work, but you get the general idea.

Yeah, I get the idea that you don't KNOW how to "Rightly Divide" the Bible.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
In the past few days I was told "today" does NOT mean "today", which of course is WRONG.

Ref. Today you will be with me in paradise as Jesus told the crucified thief next to Him.

Tonight I was told "world" does not mean "world" but it means the lost sheep of Israel.

Ref. Jn.:3:16


If I was in a group ANY group that started changing the meaning of words in scripture I would find a church that preached the scripture without changing scripture to fit a particular doctrine.

There are more words changed by MAD to make their beliefs work, but you get the general idea.

Today can be rightly understood as being this day.

and the day Christ was speaking of was the day of His Kingdom in answer to the question--

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

LA
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
[/B]
Yeah, I get the idea that you don't KNOW how to "Rightly Divide" the Bible.


Rightly divide in Timothy had nothing to do with jerking timeframes around. It was about not wasting time on issues about the law and vocab that Judaizers were stuck on.

Besides changing individual words, D'ism changes the audiences or contexts as it sees fit.

Another changed word is 'saved' such as in Rom 11. All of a sudden out of nowhere, not even the context of the Isaiah quote, 'saved' means a restored Judaic theocracy. It did not mean that in the Isaiah passage and never meant that to Paul in Romans.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Rightly divide in Timothy had nothing to do with jerking timeframes around. It was about not wasting time on issues about the law and vocab that Judaizers were stuck on.

Besides changing individual words, D'ism changes the audiences or contexts as it sees fit.

Another changed word is 'saved' such as in Rom 11. All of a sudden out of nowhere, not even the context of the Isaiah quote, 'saved' means a restored Judaic theocracy. It did not mean that in the Isaiah passage and never meant that to Paul in Romans.

:chuckle:

It's about the word of truth, the gospel of YOUR salvation.

That IS what the passage says.
 

dodge

New member
MAD is a part of the Bible. Your problem is, ignorance of that same Bible.

Let me tell you what I see from outside of MAD.

Mad IGNORES all of the teachings of Jesus by saying Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel.

Why would you ALL consider that Jesus' teachings was only for Israel ?

Jesus said come unto me ALL you that labor etc. That was not just for Israel obviously.

John 3:16 and many other things Jesus taught was for EVERYONE. I understand that some of Jesus' teachings was to the JEWS , but it was to get them OUT of following TRADITIONS and into relationship with God.

Why are ALL of the other Apostles IGNORED when they also taught the same message as PAUL ?

The divisions Madist create and force into and on to scripture destroys the context of MANY of the scriptures.

MAD only works by ignoring the giver of life i.e. Jesus, taking scripture out of context, changing the meanings of many scriptures, and making Paul an idol, which Paul taught to follow him as he followed Jesus.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Let me tell you what I see from outside of MAD.

Mad IGNORES all of the teachings of Jesus by saying Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel.

Why would you ALL consider that Jesus' teachings was only for Israel ?

Jesus said come unto me ALL you that labor etc. That was not just for Israel obviously.

John 3:16 and many other things Jesus taught was for EVERYONE. I understand that some of Jesus' teachings was to the JEWS , but it was to get them OUT of following TRADITIONS and into relationship with God.

Why are ALL of the other Apostles IGNORED when they also taught the same message as PAUL ?

The divisions Madist create and force into and on to scripture destroys the context of MANY of the scriptures.

MAD only works by ignoring the giver of life i.e. Jesus, taking scripture out of context, changing the meanings of many scriptures, and making Paul an idol, which Paul taught to follow him as he followed Jesus.

Jesus preached "The Kingdom Message" to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. So did Peter and the rest. Paul preached "The Grace Gospel" to the Gentiles. Today, Paul's Gospel includes both Jew and Gentile alike.
 

dodge

New member
Jesus preached "The Kingdom Message" to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. So did Peter and the rest. Paul preached "The Grace Gospel" to the Gentiles. Today, Paul's Gospel includes both Jew and Gentile alike.

So none of Jesus' teachings are for those who believe MAD ?

Not that you can see it ( you are blind ) Peter preached GRACE also as did John and ALL the Apostles.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Jesus preached "The Kingdom Message" to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. So did Peter and the rest. Paul preached "The Grace Gospel" to the Gentiles. Today, Paul's Gospel includes both Jew and Gentile alike.

Did Paul's teaching include Gentiles being grafted into the root and fatness of Israel?
 

northwye

New member
Dispensationalism or Christian Zionism can be seen to be an argument against these New Testament scriptures: John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5, Ephesians 4: 4, Romans 10: 12, Galatians 3: 28, Romans 2: 28-29, Romans 9: 6-8, Romans 11: 17-20, II Corinthians 3: 6-11, Galatians 3: 3, 16-17, 27-29, Galatians 4: 24-26, and Hebrews 10: 9

"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." John 10: 16

"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 10: 12

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3: 28

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2: 28-29

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Romans 9: 6-8

"And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18. Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:" Romans 11: 17-20

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8. How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." II Corinthians 3: 6-11

"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?.........Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.........For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3: 3, 16-17, 27-29

"Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all." Galatians 4: 24-26

"Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second." Hebrews 10: 9

Christian Zionism - defined by quotes from its founders - argues against these New Testament scriptures, some of which are a little subtle.

An argument against the absolute truth of scripture is an "opposition of knowledge falsely called" in I Timothy 6: 20-21.

"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen."

The key word in I Timothy 6: 20 is αντιθεσεις, or antitheoeis, in the Hegelian dialectic anti-thesis.

Antithesis is Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 477, which is said to mean "opposition, i.e., a conflict of theories. In the Hegelian dialectic there is an opposition of two positions (theories, if you wish).

There are other Greek words used in the New Testament which mean opposition, such as anthistémi, antidiatithémi, antipolítef̱si̱, or enantío̱si̱. Antithesis is a specific word used in Greek philosophy in relation to the dialectic.

antitheoeis is a Greek word used in early Greek philosophy of the dialectic. The dialectic was used in Greek philosophy before the time of Christ and called the dialectic - διαλεκτική.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic

"Dialectic (also dialectics and the dialectical method), from Ancient Greek διαλεκτική, is a method of argument.....The word dialectic originated in ancient Greece, and was made popular by Plato in the Socratic dialogues."

"In classical philosophy, dialectic (Greek: διαλεκτική) is a form of reasoning based upon dialogue of arguments and counter-arguments, advocating propositions (theses) and counter-propositions (antitheses)."

"Aristotle said that it was the pre-Socratic philosopher Zeno of Elea who invented dialectic, of which the dialogues of Plato are the examples of the Socratic dialectical method."

Science in I Timothy 6: 20 is from Strong's number 1108, gnosis, meaning "knowing,, i.e, by implication knowledge, science." Knowledge is a better translation of gnosis.

Keeping away from profane empty babblings, and the dialectic - from αντιθεσεις, or anti-thesis - of so called knowledge would mean that Paul is referring to the use of the dialectic process of argument in Greek philosophy. What Paul is saying is to keep away from the anti-thesis of so called knowledge,which is harder to understand. But in addition to saying to keep away from profane and empty babblings, Paul is saying to keep away from the method of argument of some of the Greek philosophers who use the anti-thesis. This is called the dialectic and it is known that some of the Greek philosophers used it and called it that.

George Hegel used the "thesis-antithesis-synthesis" idea and he attributed the terminology to Immanuel Kant. Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels took over the dialectic idea and made it a part of their theory, especially in the book, The Poverty of Philosophy.

"In the eyes of the dialectical philosophy, nothing is established for
all time, nothing is absolute or sacred." (Karl Marx)

The dialectic is a method of argument, which has been associated with a belief system which denies there is the God of the Bible and denies that truth and morality are fixed and absolute.

The word διαλεκτική, or dialectic, is not found in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance and is not in the New Testament, only the word αντιθεσεις, or anti-thesis.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Let me tell you what I see from outside of MAD.

Mad IGNORES all of the teachings of Jesus by saying Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel.

Why would you ALL consider that Jesus' teachings was only for Israel ?

Jesus said come unto me ALL you that labor etc. That was not just for Israel obviously.

John 3:16 and many other things Jesus taught was for EVERYONE. I understand that some of Jesus' teachings was to the JEWS , but it was to get them OUT of following TRADITIONS and into relationship with God.

Why are ALL of the other Apostles IGNORED when they also taught the same message as PAUL ?

The divisions Madist create and force into and on to scripture destroys the context of MANY of the scriptures.

MAD only works by ignoring the giver of life i.e. Jesus, taking scripture out of context, changing the meanings of many scriptures, and making Paul an idol, which Paul taught to follow him as he followed Jesus.

The facts:

1. Jesus, in his own words, says he is not sent to you.
2. Paul, in his own words, says he is sent to you.

We may as well accept these facts, and go from there.
 

dodge

New member
The facts:

1. Jesus, in his own words, says he is not sent to you.
2. Paul, in his own words, says he is sent to you.

We may as well accept these facts, and go from there.

STP, YOU and other MAdist might move on from Jesus' teachings but I don't believe sincere Christians will follow y'all.

John 3:14-21 as many other of Jesus' teachings apply to EVERYONE, and you do yourself a great harm by relegating the Gospel of Jesus and the authority of Jesus to Paul.
 
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