ECT Mad finds itself in the trash by applying simple logic

musterion

musterion

Well-known member
andyc said:
Recently I've been amused by the madists responses to the fact that Jesus forgave a woman caught in the act of adultery. The mads have amazingly convinced themselves that Jesus was a Mosaic law enforcer. Well, they have to think that, don't they?
Otherwise, Jesus would be seen to be operating with grace, mercy and forgiveness like the Jesus all non madists know and love.

So the simple point that the madist has to try and figure out is, what was the basis for people to receive forgiveness of sins by Jesus?

All non madists prepare yourselves for the most ridiculous bizarre responses to this question you could possibly imagine.
But first, lets look at the following passage......


Luke 7:36-50
Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him. And He went to the Pharisee’s house, and sat down to eat. And behold, a woman in the city who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil, and stood at His feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed them with the fragrant oil.

If you're a madist, this woman just did the most stupidest thing possible. She decided to worship a Mosaic law enforcer. The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. What kind of grace could she possibly be hoping for from a lawman?
After all, the letter kills, and Jesus was supposed to be a minister of the letter, right? :chuckle:
Jesus wasn't supposed to be speaking words of spirit and life, was he? of course not :chuckle:
What was this woman thinking?

Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he spoke to himself, saying, "This man, if He were a prophet, would know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a sinner."

He's got a point there, hasn't he, madists?

And Jesus answered and said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to you."

Listen up, madists.

So he said, "Teacher, say it." "There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. "And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?" Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have rightly judged." Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head. "You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. "You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil. "Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much.

Hang on. The woman came to Jesus in faith because she knew he'd forgive her? and so she was pouring out her love for him (worshiping him).?

She had FAITH to be forgiven in other words! And she was forgiven! GRACE GRACE GRACE! Not law!

Now if you're the pharisees sitting at the table watching this, or if you're a madist, there's a very serious question to ask here.
What is the basis for Jesus to forgive this woman's many sins? If he's a law enforcer, there is no basis. You see, the old covenant law was bound between God and man. In the same way that man was bound by the law, God was also bound by it.
How can God overlook a violation of the law one minute, and then condemn the next?
Scripture tells us that the law and the prophets were until John, and so there was a new covenant being introduced that was not according to the letter, and where faith was the only requirement. Faith in Jesus to forgive sins.

But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little." Then He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven." And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?" Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."

What? her faith saved her? Faith in what?
What's the basis for sins to be forgiven if the sinner is under condemnation from the law, and Jesus is supposed to be a law enforcer?

You won't believe the mad responses to this.

Go!
Click to expand...

The asinine OP refuted in one sentence:

By refusing to condemn the woman caught in adultery, Christ upheld the Law.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
musterion said:
Are you that dense, or that desperate? That says nothing about vicarious lawkeeping on our behalf.
Click to expand...

How did Jesus Christ prove to be sinless ("just, righteous") except by His perfect obedience unto death, under the Law?

Why was Jesus Christ born "under the Law" except to keep the Law perfectly for His unjust children?

This is how Jesus Christ "brought us to God" . .

And this is only by the legal rendering of IMPUTATION.

He became sin and suffered our death, being a just, sinless, and righteous Man, so that we might be declared pardoned (justified) and legally qualified to live forever, in Him.

Luther called this the "great exchange!"
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
musterion said:
Chapter and verse proving that.
Click to expand...


That's what half of Rom 5 is about--Adam and Christ. The life of each is imputed with opposite results. It's time to get acquainted with the NT!

Rom 10:4. Christ fulfilled the law, so there would be righteousness for all who believe. He even did John's baptism so as to fulfill all righteousness.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
musterion said:
Chapter and verse proving that.
Click to expand...


That's what half of Rom 5 is about--Adam and Christ. The life of each is imputed with opposite results. It's time to get acquainted with the NT!

Rom 10:4. Christ fulfilled the law, so there would be righteousness for all who believe. He even did John's baptism so as to fulfill all righteousness.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
It is astonishing that the MAD folks who say the Law runs until early Acts have no idea that the acts or righteousness of Christ are imputed/credited/transferred/accounted to those who believe.

Is there another Bible out there that people are reading?
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Danoh said:
As with many true accounts throughout the OT as to what they often actually represent; it's rather obvious to me what the following, true account, also actually represents...

John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

What were the Ten Commandments originally written with?

Who is it the Law and the Prophets prophesy will one day lift himself up, or rise, to come and do some things prophesied of him?

What is Jesus using to write on the ground the obvious list of each their sins with?

Who does this adultress woman that He forgives represent?

What adultress womean is it the Law and the Prophets prophesy the God of Israel will forgive of her sin of adultry one day?

And what - oh never mind...the Mads know what I am going on about...
Click to expand...

A prominent Preacher once said: He believed that Christ wrote the "Ten Commandments" in the sand? Since it's not mentioned what He wrote, we can only speculate, of course.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Interplanner said:
It is astonishing that the MAD folks who say the Law runs until early Acts have no idea that the acts or righteousness of Christ are imputed/credited/transferred/accounted to those who believe.

Is there another Bible out there that people are reading?
Click to expand...

It is a certainty that members of the "Body of Christ" receive the Righteousness of Christ.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
andyc said:
Recently I've been amused by the madists responses to the fact that Jesus forgave a woman caught in the act of adultery. The mads have amazingly convinced themselves that Jesus was a Mosaic law enforcer. Well, they have to think that, don't they?
Otherwise, Jesus would be seen to be operating with grace, mercy and forgiveness like the Jesus all non madists know and love.
Click to expand...

It's a shame you don't spend more time and effort studying the writings of Paul in order to gain the knowledge of how to become a member of the "Body of Christ?" Matthew through John was pertaining to the Lost sheep of the House of Israel. It's best for you, to gain a full understanding of the Grace of God through the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. In this "Dispensation of Grace" we don't live by the Law, but, by faith in Christ. You seem to have a desire to focus on the Law, which was never given to the Gentiles, neither did they ever live under it.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Grosnick Marowbe said:

You seem to have a desire to focus on the Law, which was never given to the Gentiles, neither did they ever live under it.
Click to expand...

The Law was first given to Adam, thus all the offspring of Adam (Jews and Gentiles) are born under the Law. It is the old Covenant of Works, which all men universally are obligated to keep.

Of course none of us ever did or could keep it; and we were all condemned for breaking it; thus the reason for God establishing the new Covenant of Grace . . performed and ratified solely by the incarnate Christ of God.

Until any souls are transferred from the old to the new, they remain condemned under the Law, as it was covenanted between God and Adam in the very beginning of creation.
 
Crucible

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
tetelestai said:
MADists claim the law and the prophets were until Mid-Acts, then they claim the law and the prophets was put on hold, then a new time period called "the age of grace" was put in place, then they claim Jesus is going to rapture away all the believers, then God's going to go back to the law and prophets again.
Click to expand...

..and that is why MADism is ridiculous, especially with the 'rapture' itself- there is no rapture according to ANY orthodox concept, period. That's the part that really makes it easy for me to call MADism a myriad of things, including 'childish'.

It's nothing but magical thinking mixed with an unrealistic approach to biblical hermeneutics- MADism is what happens when you leave a bunch of laymen with a bible in a room for too long.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top