ECT What gospel was Paul saved under?

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ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

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46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Danoh. I see this as speaking on behalf of God. When Paul speaks from his own perspective, he makes it clear he is not speaking on behalf of God. God has not put his people aside yet here in Acts 13. As long as the Jews were his people, it was necessary that any blessing go to them before the gentile. Paul.is attempting to bless them here as he points out that they don't seem themselves worthy of that blessing in verse 46.
 
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Danoh

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ClimateSanity said:
It's the same forgiveness of sins that Jesus and Peter taught. It was devoid of the DBR as the basis for said forgiveness. The Gospel of God is devoid of the basis for forgiveness.
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Nope - "this is the new testament (Israel's promised forgiveness of sins) in my blood."

Note that the Lord did not say A new testament but THE new testament.

As if He expected them to know what He was talking about.

Paul himself mentions its' forgiveness...

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Romans 11:7B is...

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John is NOT written in light of Paul.

Its' focus is the issue of Israel's New Covenant...

John is based on...

John 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

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Danoh said:
Nope - "this is the new testament (Israel's promised forgiveness of sins) in my blood."

Note that the Lord did not say A new testament but THE new testament.

As if He expected them to know what He was talking about.

Paul himself mentions its' forgiveness...

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Romans 11:7B is...

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John is NOT written in light of Paul.

Its' focus is the issue of Israel's New Covenant...

John is based on...

John 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
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??????

There is a break down in communication here. I fail to see the connection with what I said.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

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SaulToPaul said:
During Acts, it HAD to be to the Jew first and also the Greek (God fearing Gentile).
They were the only ones promised ANYTHING good by the prophets.
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I'm curious how this prophecy fits into all of this.
Luke 13:6-9 (AKJV/PCE)​
(13:6) ¶ He spake also this parable; A certain [man] had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. (13:7) Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? (13:8) And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung [it]: (13:9) And if it bear fruit, [well]: and if not, [then] after that thou shalt cut it down. ​

It has always appeared to me that this is where Israel was "cut down". This is within one year of the cross and appears to at about the same time as the stoning of Stephen.
 
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Danoh

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Right Divider said:
I'm curious how this prophecy fits into all of this.
Luke 13:6-9 (AKJV/PCE)​
(13:6) ¶ He spake also this parable; A certain [man] had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. (13:7) Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? (13:8) And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung [it]: (13:9) And if it bear fruit, [well]: and if not, [then] after that thou shalt cut it down. ​

It has always appeared to me that this is where Israel was "cut down". This is within one year of the cross and appears to at about the same time as the stoning of Stephen.
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Yeah; that's always been my take on that.
 
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Danoh

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SaulToPaul said:
During Acts, it HAD to be to the Jew first and also the Greek (God fearing Gentile).
They were the only ones promised ANYTHING good by the prophets.
Click to expand...

Where in Acts do you see this took place...

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

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ClimateSanity said:
It's the same forgiveness of sins that Jesus and Peter taught. It was devoid of the DBR as the basis for said forgiveness. The Gospel of God is devoid of the basis for forgiveness.
Click to expand...

Looks like the DBR to me.

37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
 
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Danoh

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1Mind1Spirit said:
37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
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You read right past his point :chuckle:

Okay, boys and girls; what did we learn in our last class that is referred to as - who would like to come up here and spell it?

O-v-e-r-s-i-m-p-l-i-f-i-c-a-t-i-o-n...

Very good!
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

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Danoh said:
You read right past his point :chuckle:

Okay, boys and girls; what did we learn in our last class that is referred to as - who would like to come up here and spell it?

O-v-e-r-s-i-m-p-l-i-f-i-c-a-t-i-o-n...

Very good!
Click to expand...

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

I will love simplicity for ever.

How long will you keep up your veiled scorn?

Proverbs 1:22
How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? :) and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? :idea:
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

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Keep the faith (2 Ti 4:7).

happy-barack-obama-smiley-emoticon.gif


See:

No Mediator
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

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SaulToPaul said:
During Acts, it HAD to be to the Jew first and also the Greek (God fearing Gentile).
They were the only ones promised ANYTHING good by the prophets.
Click to expand...

Then who were all these?

44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Details......
 
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Lazy afternoon

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Clete said:
I agree with this but do you ever wonder how this worked in actual practice? I mean, put yourself in the shoes of James. You and your wife and kids all practice your Christianity according to the Kingdom Gospel but what do the grandkids do? What would James have taught his grandkids to believe? Multiply that times the thousands of families that came to Christ under the Kingdom Gospel and you'll begin to understand the magnitude of the issue. How did Kingdom Believers transition their own families over to the Gospel of Grace?

Resting in Him,
Clete
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There was no transition.

If there was, then scripture would say so to such an important thing, but it does not.

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
 
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Danoh

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Clete said:
I agree with this but do you ever wonder how this worked in actual practice? I mean, put yourself in the shoes of James. You and your wife and kids all practice your Christianity according to the Kingdom Gospel but what do the grandkids do? What would James have taught his grandkids to believe? Multiply that times the thousands of families that came to Christ under the Kingdom Gospel and you'll begin to understand the magnitude of the issue. How did Kingdom Believers transition their own families over to the Gospel of Grace?

Resting in Him,
Clete
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Hmm, so you are a twelve inner, ay?

"Wait til" the DP "gets a look at" this - The Joker

"Bee-gorrah and saints prreh-serve us!" - Chief O'Hara :chuckle:
 
Clete

Clete

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
Clete, do you have any answer? I'd be open to any opinions.
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Nope! It's a question that I've pondered from time to time and don't have a good answer for. I'm going to call Bob Enyart next week on his internet podcast and we'll see what he says.

My intuition is that some transitioned their families to the Gospel of Grace and some did not, either out of ignorance or for some other, perhaps less honest, reason. If so, then this doctinal issue between law vs. grace is as old as the church itself.

I'd actually be surprised to find out that there is a decisive answer to the question. As STP pointed out, we really don't need to know the answer in detail. One way or another, there was a transition period that unfolded druing the first few decades of the 1st century.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 
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