ECT Grace is unconditional but not universal

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

If they believed what Moses said then they might look (verb) and live.

Which I clearly outlined above. Believed is a verb that is the action accomplished by the noun faith. Faith comes by the noun hearing.

This isn't rocket surgery, except for self-entitled Modernist autocentric English minds.

You think God isn't omnipotent enough to allow choice and remain in control?

It has nothing to do with the straw man you just introduced.

Epistemologically, the will is the application of the mind (in tension) toward object as subject (hence, "intention/s"). Only a renewed mind can apply the will toward righteousness as God's standard. Man cannot renew His own mind to apply his own will. He must receive the renewing, and be renewed in the spirit of the mind. God, who IS Spirit, does the renewing; not man.

Faith is not a work;

Right. That's what I said. Faith is a noun, and it comes from the noun of hearing, which is by means of the Word of God.

that's why we are credited, as a gift, with righteousness.

We aren't imputed righteousness because of the verb of believing. We're imputed righteousness by God's grace.

You still think you can "verb" your way to salvation, and then say your believing is not a work. You need faith, and its a noun. The thing believed. And that thing believed only comes out of the thing heard, which is by means of the thing thought and spoken about by God.

What you are thinking and speaking is not God's (anarthrous) Rhema (Word); it's your own. That thing won't save you. Only God's Word will save. Only what God did will save, not anything any man has done or will ever do.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Romans 4:1ff says otherwise.

Nope. Romans 4:5 clearly says faith (the noun) is counted for righteousness. Not the verb.

 

[whitestone]

Grace is unconditional but not universal,,? there's a condition on universal?

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

So the Gospel crystallizes into Russian roulette?

No. Your English concepts fail you. They fail most Modernists.

No - but you don't consider Him able to remain in control whilst allowing choice.

This is YOUR strawman. It's a wrong foundation from which to address the subject.

The multi-versity of all contingent potentialities and plausible possibilities are in the eternal immutable pre-creational mind of God. Control isn't even an appropriate word to use. He is sovereign in all things, including bringing salvation to mankind and restoring functionality to His creation that has been dysfunctionalized, regardless the degree of dysfunction.

You don't understand epistemology or phenomenology, or what the human will is and how it works.

Agreed.

Then why do you insist that the verb believe is what saved man? Man's believing does not save him. The faith that comes from God by His Word saves man.

No elect few?

No. That's a Reductionist presupposition from an autocentric Modernist heart and mind, scultped by (low-context) language and culture in abject default entitlement.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

If anybody would ever spend a few years understanding Greek articular and anarthrous nouns and how they translate into English, nobody would have these huge issues of replacing what scripture says with concepts of their own minds.

That's the devices of Satan that we're not to be ignorant of. Devices is noema... Concepts of the mind. And English is the greatest tool to install such devices.

 

[patrick jane]

Which I clearly outlined above. Believed is a verb that is the action accomplished by the noun faith. Faith comes by the noun hearing.

This isn't rocket surgery, except for self-entitled Modernist autocentric English minds.



It has nothing to do with the straw man you just introduced.

Epistemologically, the will is the application of the mind (in tension) toward object as subject (hence, "intention/s"). Only a renewed mind can apply the will toward righteousness as God's standard. Man cannot renew His own mind to apply his own will. He must receive the renewing, and be renewed in the spirit of the mind. God, who IS Spirit, does the renewing; not man.



Right. That's what I said. Faith is a noun, and it comes from the noun of hearing, which is by means of the Word of God.



We aren't imputed righteousness because of the verb of believing. We're imputed righteousness by God's grace.

You still think you can "verb" your way to salvation, and then say your believing is not a work. You need faith, and its a noun. The thing believed. And that thing believed only comes out of the thing heard, which is by means of the thing thought and spoken about by God.

What you are thinking and speaking is not God's (anarthrous) Rhema (Word); it's your own. That thing won't save you. Only God's Word will save. Only what God did will save, not anything any man has done or will ever do.

How pompous of you to assume we all don't already understand the nouns hearing and believing. How dare you

 

[Sonnet]

Which I clearly outlined above. Believed is a verb that is the action accomplished by the noun faith. Faith comes by the noun hearing.

This isn't rocket surgery, except for self-entitled Modernist autocentric English minds.

Who determines who will be hearing?

Epistemologically, the will is the application of the mind (in tension) toward object as subject (hence, "intention/s"). Only a renewed mind can apply the will toward righteousness as God's standard. Man cannot renew His own mind to apply his own will. He must receive the renewing, and be renewed in the spirit of the mind. God, who IS Spirit, does the renewing; not man.

Faith is not a work of righteousness. There is nothing about faith that can in any way be considered a work of righteousness.

Is God omnipotent enough to allow choice and remain in control?

Right. That's what I said. Faith is a noun, and it comes from the noun of hearing, which is by means of the Word of God.

The doctrine of election and reprobation, right?

We aren't imputed righteousness because of the verb of believing. We're imputed righteousness by God's grace.

Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Who determines who will be hearing?

It has nothing to do with the straw man you just introduced.

Faith is not a work of righteousness. There is nothing about faith that can in any way be considered a work of righteousness.

Is God omnipotent enough to allow choice and remain in control?

The doctrine of election and reprobation, right?

Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

Sigh. If you understood that the timeless God interacts with the time of creation, you wouldn't have to ask all these presuppositionally erroneous questions. This is what Calvinists don't understand either.

Abraham did not believe (the verb) God without the noun of faith coming out of the noun of hearing, which was by means of the thing thought and spoken about by God.

If it wasn't about the thing God said, then what was there to believe? No thing. If there was no thing thought and spoken about, then there was no thing to believe.

You're applying your Modernist English grid (with gross entitlement and pride of life) to the Greek language of the inspired text in arrears according to your perceptions by which you self-interpret all nouns and verbs fallaciously, though subtly so.

You think your position is elevated, and it's not. You're blind to the simple truth by concepts of your own mind.

 

[Cross Reference]

Sigh. If you understood that the timeless God interacts with the time of creation, you wouldn't have to ask all these presuppositionally erroneous questions. This is what Calvinists don't understand either.

Abraham did not believe (the verb) God without the noun of faith coming out of the noun of hearing, which was by means of the thing thought and spoken about by God.

Abraham was a righteous man BEFORE God ever spoke to him. In fact, his righteousness was the reason God did speak to him. But you will never understand that. You are incapable of taking into yourself such a truth. It is over your head.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Abraham was a righteous man BEFORE God ever spoke to him. In fact, his righteousness was the reason God did speak to him. But you will never understand that. You are incapable of taking into yourself such a truth. It is over your head.

You're just all bent because you can't face that your Christology is a major historical heresy, so you have to continually lash out at me like it's my fault because I exposed it with the truth.

 

[john w]

Repentance is not required to be forgiven (justified) by God; rather repentance is evidence the sinner has been saved by God's power and grace, through gifted faith, alone.

Dear "elect" Clavinist/Calvinist,


How much "repentance," serves as evidence that you are one of the "elect" to salvation? My next door neighbor, a Buddhist monk, from Tibet, says he "repents," as he has given up 32 habits, including "bad thoughts," in the last year. Is that enough "repentance?"

Clavinism/Calvinism is a subtil(Genesis 3:1 KJV)form of "works based" "salvation," despite any forthcoming spin, tap dancing with a tap hat, and white cane, is dodge ball, doing the hokey pokey, and turning all about, so that they are in a twisted pretzel, in a ball of neurons, and protons, and yarn, and strings, and cobwebs, and ....Calvinism/Clavinism, as laid out in the "P" of "TULIP," is a wicked perversion of the gospel of Christ, and, again, is subtil form of works based "salvation," as rat poison is 99.99% cornmeal-it's that .01% that "gets the rat." The "doctrine"(loosely employed here)does not teach eternal security-it teaches this "Perseverance of the Saints" a "doctrine," which, in a nutshell, is the "thinking" that one must maintain a life of faith and good works in order to remain saved, to "prove" that you are one of "the elect," i.e., I know that I'm saved/one of the 'elect,' cuz my lifestyle tells me so. That is, I thought I was saved, but I relapsed into drinking booze, hookers, cussing at someone in traffic.....so I must not be saved, one of the "elect." I thought I was one of the "elect," saved, but my lifestyle, lack of "repenting"/"stop sinning," tells me I am not. Repeating-it's a subtil(Gen. 3 KJV) form of "works based" "salvation." Clavinists/Calvinists, of course, deny it, but, again, it is the inevitable outcome of this "elect to salvation" satanic jazz. Of course, according to this "doctrine," those who were predestined to believe and get saved are also predestined to maintain their faith and good works for the rest of their lives. This teaching is substantially different from the doctrine of eternal security, based on examining the definition/details of the "volume of the book," where assurance is derived from the book itself, not from examining your lifestyle/"fruit"...........


I know, I know....Boo, hiss, my dear misguided MAD wacko John W...Repent, John W, and we will pray that God will let you know that you are one of the "elect," although our "prayers" are really not necessary, just a good roll of the cosmic dice, from the great cosmic comic, the LORD God of the "elect"...You must not be one of the "elect," anyway, after reading your post, you see, uh, urr..................

 

[Nang]

Only a renewed mind can apply the will toward righteousness as God's standard. Man cannot renew His own mind to apply his own will. He must receive the renewing, and be renewed in the spirit of the mind. God, who IS Spirit, does the renewing; not man.

We aren't imputed righteousness because of the verb of believing. We're imputed righteousness by God's grace.

Yes. The correct assessment and essence of the OP . . .

You need faith, and its a noun. The thing believed. And that thing believed only comes out of the thing heard, which is by means of the thing thought and spoken about by God.

Amen.

What you are thinking and speaking is not God's (anarthrous) Rhema (Word); it's your own. That thing won't save you. Only God's Word will save. Only what God did will save, not anything any man has done or will ever do.

Amen.

 

[Nang]

Grace is unconditional but not universal,,? there's a condition on universal?

I hope you are trying to be funny . . .

:mmph:

 

[Nang]

Abraham was a righteous man BEFORE God ever spoke to him. In fact, his righteousness was the reason God did speak to him.

This is absolute error.

Wrong, wrong, wrong . . .

 

[whitestone]

I hope you are trying to be funny . . .

:mmph:

no,seriously if you feel as though you must repent to be saved and you have not yet disobeyed God today by all means go ahead and disobey him so you can repent and then be saved...

 

[Nang]

Deleted duplicate post

 

[Nang]

no,seriously if you feel as though you must repent to be saved and you have not yet disobeyed God today by all means go ahead and disobey him so you can repent and then be saved...

Sadly, this is the behavior of many who profess to be saved by the grace of God. They almost think it sinful if they act obediently, or attend worship services, or hold to historical church creeds . . . for by doing, they think they are actually denying the saving grace of God.

It is very twisted . . .

Repentance is granted only by the grace of God, which produces a sanctified (holy) life. A lifetstyle of no repentance, no holy living, no obedience only reveals: no love of God, no knowledge of God, no grace of God, no salvation by God.

IMO.

That is why I do not think grace is universal or common to man, for very few humans evidence the marks of repentance and faith that come only from God.

 

[whitestone]

Sadly, this is the behavior of many who profess to be saved by the grace of God. They almost think it sinful if they act obediently, or attend worship services, or hold to historical church creeds . . . for by doing, they think they are actually denying the saving grace of God.

It is very twisted . . .


I concur,,I think it is too,,,first you say to repent,but of what do you repent. Then to be able to repent you must do one of two things,either you must disobey to so you have an thing to repent of or deny that you were saved by Christ on the cross,,your choice though you should feel free to repent of one or the other.

Repentance is granted only by the grace of God, which produces a sanctified (holy) life. A lifetstyle of no repentance, no holy living, no obedience only reveals: no love of God, no knowledge of God, no grace of God, no salvation by God.

IMO.

That is why I do not think grace is universal or common to man, for very few humans evidence the marks of repentance and faith that come only from God.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Who determines who will be hearing?

Wrong premise. Wrong question.

Faith is not a work of righteousness.

Right. Because faith is a noun. Believe/believing is a verb.

There is nothing about faith that can in any way be considered a work of righteousness.

Ezactly. It's a noun. Nouns aren't verbs. Just like hamartia (sin).

Is God omnipotent enough to allow choice and remain in control?

Of course. The problem is man's will not being able to choose God's righteousness because an unrenewed unchanged mind can't begin to fathom such.

The doctrine of election and reprobation, right?

No.

Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

Right. Believed is the noun in action.

 

[Sonnet]

Sigh. If you understood that the timeless God interacts with the time of creation, you wouldn't have to ask all these presuppositionally erroneous questions. This is what Calvinists don't understand either.

If you are privy to the understanding then please share it.

Abraham did not believe (the verb) God without the noun of faith coming out of the noun of hearing, which was by means of the thing thought and spoken about by God.

If it wasn't about the thing God said, then what was there to believe? No thing. If there was no thing thought and spoken about, then there was no thing to believe.

You have already said that you consider God to be monergistically behind Abraham's belief.

You're applying your Modernist English grid (with gross entitlement and pride of life) to the Greek language of the inspired text in arrears according to your perceptions by which you self-interpret all nouns and verbs fallaciously, though subtly so.

You think your position is elevated, and it's not. You're blind to the simple truth by concepts of your own mind.

No, I'm just accepting that Abraham believed.

Is this correct:
Canons of Dort: Divine Election and Reprobation?