ECT "PISTEUO", the secret of the universe....

Faither

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Galatians 2:16

English mistranslation of pisteuo: "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith in Jesus Christ, even we have "believed" (mistranslation) in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

English corrected translation of "pisteuo" : "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith in Jesus Christ, even we have surrendered our lives in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
 

Danoh

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Galatians 2:16

English mistranslation of pisteuo: "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith in Jesus Christ, even we have "believed" (mistranslation) in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

English corrected translation of "pisteuo" : "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith in Jesus Christ, even we have surrendered our lives in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

The Greek is "the faith OF Christ." You make a big deal about the Greek; so what gives?
 

Faither

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The Greek is "the faith OF Christ." You make a big deal about the Greek; so what gives?

I'm guessing you already know the answer to that question. The KJV is my source. This thread is about "pisteuo".

All these subjects your asking me about are great topics and i know a lot about them, but without "pisteuo", which you reject, your not qualified to discuss any of them.
 

Faither

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For me, the Word of God is like a mirror that can be held up to reflect any of Gods nature coming out of us. But in reality, we are living our own Epistles, good or bad. If i haven't surrendered my life to Christ, that mirror isn't mine to reflect off of.

All i have been doing here on this thread is holding up a definition of what "is" the most important word in the Scriptures. I rarely went outside of that object , thats only physically holding up someone elses translation. I never made this thread about my opinion, only the precise definition from the strongs and vines.

As the result of holding up this truth, here has been the response to it.

Idiot
deliberately evasive
lordship salvationist
blind
don't know what i'm talking about
foolish
religious fanatic
duck
distortionist
outside the faith
backwards
preaching false gospel
accursed
know it all
author of confusion
calinist
misplaced
wrong
over reliant
reliance on notions
fabricated my own gospel
in error
in need of a crutch
made myself captive
personal translations
false posts
have pagen higher power
trading addictions
drunk
liar x 2
dense
drunk on pride
cherry picker
delusional
a waste of time
have cart before the horse
third grader
fools view
on high horse
jerry shugart
legalistic

All these names I've been called for simply holding up a strongs and Vines definition of pisteuo.

I put this on here so those of you that have participated in the misrepresentation might look in this mirror at the reflection of yourselves and what is flowing out of you.
 

Faither

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Factoid : "When God repeats Himself pay extra attention." Most of the time when God repeats Himself, it's maybe once or twice. How will we fair, if we've openly rejected the true meaning of "pisteuo", arguably the most important word in the Scriptures.

He repeated it 248 times. How much extra attention are you giving it?
 

Danoh

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Now why am I not surprised you have kept a nice, fat, juicy, ever growing "short accounts" based list of "o how" you "suffer for Jesus."

To the left of that list; another list - your version of the grace legalist's "short accounts" based list of who has towed the line, who has offended them. In short; of who can and who can not fellowship with them based on their own criteria.

In the middle, an image of what this is actually all about for your kind: your narcissism.

To your recovery one day soon "Faither."

The sooner you put away "Vine's and Strong's definitions" and get - in - THE - Book's definitions - and - STAY - IN - THE - Book - ALONE - the sooner you can begin to recover your self.

Even under the Law, such was the required remedy...

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 

Faither

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For me, the Word of God is like a mirror that can be held up to reflect any of Gods nature coming out of us. But in reality, we are living our own Epistles, good or bad. If i haven't surrendered my life to Christ, that mirror isn't mine to reflect off of.

All i have been doing here on this thread is holding up a definition of what "is" the most important word in the Scriptures. I rarely went outside of that object , thats only physically holding up someone elses translation. I never made this thread about my opinion, only the precise definition from the strongs and vines.

As the result of holding up this truth, here has been the response to it.

Idiot
deliberately evasive
lordship salvationist
blind
don't know what i'm talking about
foolish
religious fanatic
duck
distortionist
outside the faith
backwards
preaching false gospel
accursed
know it all
author of confusion
calinist
misplaced
wrong
over reliant
reliance on notions
fabricated my own gospel
in error
in need of a crutch
made myself captive
personal translations
false posts
have pagen higher power
trading addictions
drunk
liar x 2
dense
drunk on pride
cherry picker
delusional
a waste of time
have cart before the horse
third grader
fools view
on high horse
jerry shugart
legalistic
narcissist


All these names I've been called for simply holding up a strongs and Vines definition of pisteuo.

I put this on here so those of you that have participated in the misrepresentation might look in this mirror at the reflection of yourselves and what is flowing out of you.

Narcissist, got it. i'll put it on the list. You can't attack the text, so attack what the text is written on or the one presenting it. Don't make it so complicated,it's not me you have a problem with, its the greek texts.
 

Danoh

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Narcissist, got it. i'll put it on the list. You can't attack the text, so attack what the text is written on or the one presenting it. Don't make it so complicated,it's not me you have a problem with, its the greek texts.

No, it's reliance on definitions by men - Strong and Vine - that I take issue with.

Scripture is its own concordance and as a result of that; its own dictionary.

This is why you are unable to answer the question "what is the intended sense of the phrase 'the faith OF Christ?'"

Were you the issue, in my mind, then I would not be hoping the best for you in this, now would I?

Do you even know what I mean by 'Scripture is its own concordance and as a result of that; its own dictionary'?

The best to you in this.
 

Faither

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No, it's reliance on definitions by men - Strong and Vine - that I take issue with.

Scripture is its own concordance and as a result of that; its own dictionary.

This is why you are unable to answer the question "what is the intended sense of the phrase 'the faith OF Christ?'"

Were you the issue, in my mind, then I would not be hoping the best for you in this, now would I?

Do you even know what I mean by 'Scripture is its own concordance and as a result of that; its own dictionary'?

The best to you in this.

So are you saying that the Greek texts have a different "concordance" than the English texts?
 

Danoh

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So are you saying that the Greek texts have a different "concordance" than the English texts?

I'm saying that if you are going to rely on Strong's and Vine's, you are missing out on how such resources are properly made use of.

Do a search on here (TOL) through its concordance or word search tool. I once wrote an article on here for those who might tend to over rely on Strong's - on how to properly use it in one's word studies...
 

Faither

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I read your article, and am very aware of context. The teacher who taught me, being at a professor at Stanford university level was aware of it to. He also taught the Scriptures didn't have chapter and verse , or punctuation, a lot of things can change the meaning and context of the original authors. But that is who we are supposed to be protecting right, the original texts.

You seem to be trying to protect an understanding that came from the mistranslation of "pisteuo".

Here's an honest question, please give an honest answer. Before 2 weeks ago, did you know that the English language had no verb for the Noun Faith? That "believe" is a mistranslation?
 

Danoh

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I first encountered it back in about 92' or thereabouts.

I'd received an advanced copy in the mail of some new translation. Checking for how they had translated the various passages wherein Paul uses the phrase "the faith OF Jesus Christ," I found they had translated it "faith IN..."

So I called them and ended up having a long conversation with one of its' translators.

He brought up your same assertion about pisteuo. But then kept insisting that "Christ needs no faitlh."

He was contradicting their own translation.

We went round and round, he kept concluding that was what I was saying, so we said our good byes.

Its why I asked you what you understand "the faith OF Christ" is a reference to. You came back with that translator's same translation "faith IN."

In other words, you did not answer my question.

But its answer is why we differ.

I'll leave it to you to sort that out
 

Faither

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I first encountered it back in about 92' or thereabouts.

I'd received an advanced copy in the mail of some new translation. Checking for how they had translated the various passages wherein Paul uses the phrase "the faith OF Jesus Christ," I found they had translated it "faith IN..."

So I called them and ended up having a long conversation with one of its' translators.

He brought up your same assertion about pisteuo. But then kept insisting that "Christ needs no faitlh."

He was contradicting their own translation.

We went round and round, he kept concluding that was what I was saying, so we said our good byes.

Its why I asked you what you understand "the faith OF Christ" is a reference to. You came back with that translator's same translation "faith IN."

In other words, you did not answer my question.

But its answer is why we differ.

I'll leave it to you to sort that out

Remember, the teacher i learned from has the largest collection of biblical manuscripts in private hands behind the Vatican. He had access to every translation under the sun, and new how to read them. He taught in depth about the "in Christ" verses "of Christ" issue. His translation of choice was the KJV. But there were other translations that might give a better picture of what the authors were saying.

I've thought about the Faith of Christ issue in my own mind, my teacher never supported the "of Christ" thats in some translations. For Christ to have faith there would have had to be something in the future He didn't know about, that wasn't a fact to Him yet. That to me could only be when He "gave His life" (pisteuo) that He had no assurance that the Father would restore Him to His former Glory. Jesus "surrendered His life" (pisteuo) to the fact that He "trusted in" (pisteuo) the Father to restore Him to His former glory.

I don't spend a lot of time thinking about theorys that can't be supported by the in depth years of mining in Gods Word my Teacher has done.
 
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Faither

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I first encountered it back in about 92' or thereabouts.

I'd received an advanced copy in the mail of some new translation. Checking for how they had translated the various passages wherein Paul uses the phrase "the faith OF Jesus Christ," I found they had translated it "faith IN..."

So I called them and ended up having a long conversation with one of its' translators.

He brought up your same assertion about pisteuo. But then kept insisting that "Christ needs no faitlh."

He was contradicting their own translation.

We went round and round, he kept concluding that was what I was saying, so we said our good byes.

Its why I asked you what you understand "the faith OF Christ" is a reference to. You came back with that translator's same translation "faith IN."

In other words, you did not answer my question.

But its answer is why we differ.

I'll leave it to you to sort that out


You first knew in 92 that "pisteuo" couldn't be translated into English? And that the word "believe" was a mistranslation? Did you know the English language had no verb for the noun faith?
 

Danoh

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I first knew from that translator what you are also now asserting about pisteuo.

He then contradicted himself by saying that the proper translation of the passages I had called him about was "faith IN Jesus Christ," NOT "faith OF Jesus Christ."

That isn't even the same issue, but said expert could not even make that out.

By the way, you make the same mistake, that, say, Dan P, on TOL often makes.

The mistake of concluding a better, correct, much more up to date translation is needed for this, that, other word.

Fact is, coining new words is often NOT how how new meanings are communicated.

Rather, how existing words are used often is.

As when the invention of the personal computer resulted in an added new meaning to the long already existing word "mouse."

911 used to refer to the number for emergency calls. Now it also refers to a tragic loss of lives in our history.

Lol, you're good at lists - I'm sure you could come up with tons of LONG EXISTING words that over time have taken on ADDITIONAL meanings.

If that "suits" you, that is.

If it is your "size."

If it "sits well" with you.

If you get my "drift."

Can you "dig" it :)
 

Faither

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I first knew from that translator what you are also now asserting about pisteuo.

He then contradicted himself by saying that the proper translation of the passages I had called him about was "faith IN Jesus Christ," NOT "faith OF Jesus Christ."

That isn't even the same issue, but said expert could not even make that out.

By the way, you make the same mistake, that, say, Dan P, on TOL often makes.

The mistake of concluding a better, correct, much more up to date translation is needed for this, that, other word.

Fact is, coining new words is often NOT how how new meanings are communicated.

Rather, how existing words are used often is.

As when the invention of the personal computer resulted in an added new meaning to the long already existing word "mouse."

911 used to refer to the number for emergency calls. Now it also refers to a tragic loss of lives in our history.

Lol, you're good at lists - I'm sure you could come up with tons of LONG EXISTING words that over time have taken on ADDITIONAL meanings.

If that "suits" you, that is.

If it is your "size."

If it "sits well" with you.

If you get my "drift."

Can you "dig" it :)

you got it backwards, my definition has been around for ever. Your definition of "believing" is the "new" translation.
 

Danoh

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you got it backwards, my definition has been around for ever. Your definition of "believing" is the "new" translation.

Hah - true to this legalist form you are erroneously promoting, you consistently ask questions only to turn around and pronounce the other party has once more failed your "short accounts" standard.

And you didn't even understand my reply.

But, you have continually skirted having to deal with the sense of the phrase "the faith OF Christ."

So it't not like your hypocrisy is some kind of a surprise.
 

Faither

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QUOTE=Faither;4635933]The Greek word "pisteuo". Probably the most important word that we will ever hear as called out ones. I consider this word to be the "secret of the universe". Because one day, God will reveal the importance of "pisteuo," and everyone will know it was right there in front of us all the time.

I beat this drum of "pisteuo ", because without actively exercising "pisteuo", no one can have the relationship with Christ that the NT talks about. An indwelling Holy Spirit, being in Christ, having Gods nature flowing through us, the word of God being ours to look at like a mirror, the mind of Christ, to be able to have that continual praying without ceasing. Without "pisteuo," none of these things will come to pass.

With those things said, what exactly is "pisteuo?"

"Pisteuo" is the Greek word, a verb, that's corresponds with the Greek word, a noun, "pistis".

When pistis and pisteuo were translated into the English texts, Pistis is where we get our word
"faith", the noun, was no problem. But when the translators tried to find an English word for "pisteuo," there was none. Pisteuo is a verb, An act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

Pisteuo is the word that describes, encompasses, and teaches us what NT saving Faith is. We should have had the words faither, faithing, and to faithe, for the translators to use when translating pisteuo into English. But only because they had no other choice, they had to go with believer, believing, and to believe. The word pisteuo and it's English mistranslations are used over 250 times in the NT. The words believer, believing, and to believe are only one third of what Nt saving Faith is. And building an understanding on any of these three words is not NT saving Faith.

Over the next few days i'm going to post on this thread,certain Scriptures with the vines dictionary meaning in place of the mistranslated words. It will be very hard for many to accept. But remember, this doesn't just affect you, your entire household and family will be affected by this.

Positive comments and good questions only. Please no, "I don't accept the Greek dictionary definitions."

1) John 3:16

English translation : "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever "believes" (mistranslation) in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Greek translation : "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever "pisteuo" surrenders their life and will to Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

2) John 5:24

English translation : "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and "believes" (mistranslation) in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

Greek translation : " Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and "surrenders their life" (pisteuo) to Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

The reason for the two different translations is the English language has no word for the Greek word Pisteuo. So taking out the mistranslated word "believes" and putting in the Greek definition of pisteuo gives us a better understanding of what the Greek texts were trying to convey.

Pisteuo is used 248 times in the Gospels alone. I'll continue to post the true meanings of other Scriptures

4) Rom. 3:22

English mistranslation : even the righteousness of God which is through Faith In Jesus Christ to all and on all who "believe". (mistranslated word "believe) For there is no difference;

Greek corrected translation : even the righteousness of God which is through Faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all who "surrender there lives to Him". (pisteuo) For there is no difference;

5) 1 Cor. 14:22,

English mistranslation: "Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; But prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe."

Corrected English translation from the Greek: Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who surrender their lives to Jesus but to those who surrender their lives to another Jesus; but prophesy is not for those who surrender their lives to someone other than the NT Christ but for those who do surrender their lives to the Jesus Christ of the NT.

6)Eph. 1:19

English mistranslation of "pisteuo." "And what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who "believe" (mistranslation) according to the working of His mighty power.

Corrected translation of "pisteuo" " And what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who surrender our lives to Christ, according to the working of His mighty power.

7) John 7:38


JN. 7:38 English mistranslation: "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."

Jn. 7:38 Greek corrected translation : He that surrenders his life to me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.


The mistranslated word is "believeth" .

The correct translation is "surrenders his life to me."

Taken word for word out of the VINES for "pisteuo

Lets get back to the topic at hand.
 

Faither

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This is where the Greek word "pisteuo" is in the NT KJV used 220 times.

The definition of this word "pisteuo" is : Strongs, " pisteuo means NOT JUST TO BELIEVE", "reliance upon", " commit unto", "commit to ones trust", "be committed unto".

Vines : " A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender".


KJV Verse Count
Matthew 9
Mark 14
Luke 9
John 86
Acts 36
Romans 20
1 Corinthians 8
2 Corinthians 1
Galatians 4
Ephesians 2
Philippians 1
1 Thessalonians 5
2 Thessalonians 3
1 Timothy 3
2 Timothy 1
Titus 2
Hebrews 2
James 2
1 Peter 4
1 John 7
Jude 1
Total 220

I know in this day and age what we say goes. But thats not Gods way. This word "pisteuo" in scripture tells us how we can have a right relationship with God.

We are Faithers, our lives consist of hundreds of acts of Faithing every day. Faithing or pisteuo is an act , based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. When we get out of bed in the morning, did you make sure your legs work, or that the floor will hold you up? Did you check your brain to make sure it's working correctly? The answer is no to all those examples! That is what pisteuo or faithing is, we are doing that all day every day. Now the strongs gives a definition of pisteuo that doesn't include the act of Saving Faithing. The vines does, the vines is specifying the exact act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence, that can start a relationship with Jesus. And that is " A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender."

Your sinful nature will want you to say , " i don't need the Greek texts, i don't need the Greek dictioary, all i need is the Word, i don't want to surrender my life ". Those thoughts would be easily validated by the surrounding voices you'll hear, especially in discussion groups where they have been self taught and don't even understand the basic definition of Faithing.
 
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