ECT "PISTEUO", the secret of the universe....

[Faither]

Respectfully, Faither, no, I do not go by "dictionary definitions."

I go by exhaustive word(s) studies I conduct within my KJB.

"Hang with" any culture and or sub-culture long enough, and you can not but pick up on said culture's intended sense through words by how said culture uses said words.

AA is not the Scripture's culture; Scripture ALONE is...

How IT uses any word and or words, WHERE It does, in relation to WHO, WHAT, and WHERE, will bring out IT's WHY.

Also HOW it brings all that out.

Case in point, often, the same intended sense will be repeated in a same passage and or near passage via a seemingly different word.

This, in turn, results in being able to gather even more information WITHIN Scripture as to the intended sense of the word one is attempting to get at the proper sense of.

Next thing one knows; one has a lot of information from all that time IN SCRIPTURE ITSELF IN THIS MANNER, stored up "richly" in the mentality of one's soul.

Information that is more and more useful with each of the above kind of excursion in "what saith THE SCRIPTURE."

Gradually, one begins to find all sorts of things as to their intended sense through words have found their intended place.

Dictionaries, etc., are "intended" as tools, not the crutch their OVERreliance on often ends up.

The best to you in this...

Thanks for giving me a straight answer. I understand how divisive this is, and appreciate a respectful answer even though you don't agree with me or the Greek texts.

I have to call you out on one thing though. The 12 steps thread and this thread are separate and i'm only showing the similarities between the two.

Would I be wasting our time to try and persuade you? Not using Scripture to go back and forth, we haven't even established that either of us has the Spirit of Christ, that would make Gods Word ours to talk about.

I'm just talking about the Greek word Pisteuo.

 

[Faither]

I haven’t done a study on the word but the Vines and Strong’s definition makes sense to me. I see “believe” as action based on faith. Like the example in Matt. 7 of the two men building houses.

24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock….. 26 Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

It's obvious who is the believer.

Your on the right path. But act or action doesn't have anything to do with "believe" it's an act or action because "pisteuo" is a verb, an action word. We then look at the Greek texts and dictionaries to determine what kind of act or action is "pisteuo" showing us. That's when we can take out the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing, and insert the true definition of pisteuo, which is what I'm doing with certain Scriptures.

thanks for the reply.

 

[Danoh]

Thanks for giving me a straight answer. I understand how divisive this is, and appreciate a respectful answer even though you don't agree with me or the Greek texts.

I have to call you out on one thing though. The 12 steps thread and this thread are separate and i'm only showing the similarities between the two.

Would I be wasting our time to try and persuade you? Not using Scripture to go back and forth, we haven't even established that either of us has the Spirit of Christ, that would make Gods Word ours to talk about.

I'm just talking about the Greek word Pisteuo.

Ok, so let's establish we each have the Spirit of Christ.

The short version of my understanding of how one ends up in possession of said Spirit is:

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

That is my basic basis. I have yet to read of yours. So, I'm glad you brought this up.

 

[turbosixx]

So you choose to be bound by circumcision. Interesting.

Yes

COl. 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

 

[Danoh]

Yes

COl. 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

What is your understanding of what Paul is talking about there, and, of how that is brought about?

 

[turbosixx]

What is your understanding of what Paul is talking about there, and, of how that is brought about?

I only know what I read.

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

 

[Nick M]

Yes

COl. 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

No, you said your actions. In him, there is no action from us. This is why there needs to be negative reputation.

 

[Nick M]

Romans 3

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Go ahead and "fix" this bad translation for us.

 

[turbosixx]

No, you said your actions. In him, there is no action from us.

I believe there is action from us.

Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved;

Col. 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism,

This is why there needs to be negative reputation.

Are you the only one that can have an opinion?

 

[Faither]

Ok, so let's establish we each have the Spirit of Christ.

The short version of my understanding of how one ends up in possession of said Spirit is:

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

That is my basic basis. I have yet to read of yours. So, I'm glad you brought this up.

Rom 8:9 tells us of a foundational truth in Gods world, very simple one.

If we don't have the Spirit of Christ, Christ is not ours, if Christ is not ours, then Gods word is not ours.

This is the Salvation journey in detail as I understand it, and how I have experienced it.


The Salvation timeline or journey are the Biblical happenings that unfold as we are Faithing into and in Christ. I understand many will not agree with this timeline. All I ask is that if you disagree with my understanding or timeline, please post your understanding of your timeline of events that happen when we are drawn, tested, sealed, and maintaining in Christ.

1) The world or the field:

a) Christ bought this entire field to get the treasure out of it.
b) People are called out from this field.
c) people are not called out from this field.
e) The drawing of the Father starts here.
f) The beginning of the perfecting process starts here.
g) No prayer or worship is acceptable here yet.
h) Not sealed with the Holy Spirit yet. Not His yet. Rom. 8:9
I) No gift of hearing yet.

2)The Door or the sacrifice.

a) The surrendering of our life and will to God. (Faithing or Pisteuo)
b) Here an act of Faithing is acceptable by a hearing of Christ or His Word. But we are still outside of Gods Word at this point.
c) No saving Faith yet.
d) We are still outside of Gods word here an not His yet. Rom: 8:9
e) Here prayer and worship are not acceptable by God yet.
f) Alternate paths are formed to go over or around having to make this surrender.
g) The gift of hearing starts to happen here when our surrender has been deemed genuine. (not perfect)

3)Parable of the sower.

a)Called out ones are the soil.
b) Gods Word or Christ is the seed.
c) We have the gift of hearing here.
d) this is a testing or proving ground.
e)A grafting process is happening here.
f) A response starts to happen.
g) The paradox begins to form here.
h) Here, Christ is beginning to be formed in our hearts by Faithing.
I) Decisions are made here ( a life inspired by our surrender) that show God we are really trying to surrender our entire life and will to Him. (not perfection, genuine)
j) No prayer or worship acceptable by God yet.
k) No saving Faith here yet.

4) He accepts the offering of our life and will to Him.

a) Here is the point where our surrender or sacrifice has been accepted.
b) God seals in us His Holy Spirit, making us a temple of the Holy Spirit.
c) A Spiritual awakening happens here.
d) The dynamite power of the Holy Spirit goes off here.
e) Gods nature begins to flow.
f)The kind of giving that can't be imitated starts to happen.
g)Saving Faith has begun.
h) Prayer and worship are acceptable now. (Holy Spirit interceding)
I) For the first time, He is in us and we are in Him.
j) A called out one can only experience this point of the journey one time.
k) Again, attempts are made to go over or around this point of the process to no avail.

5) The product.

a) Here, God is producing Faithers that are responding with saving Faith.
b) Here, the preconditions have been met. (Not as works to be saved, but works as the result of being saved.)
c) Here, a continuous state of Faithing or surrender is happening.
d) Here, we are either being saved, (pisteuo) or perishing, ( apisteuo).
e) Here the perfecting process is being perfected.
f) This is not a destination.
g) We should expect the Word or Christs nature to be flowing through us continuously here.
H) Here, we are His and He is ours. We are in a state where it's harder to get out of His will, than it is to stay in it.
I) here we are in the same state as Paul was in Romans 7:14-20.

 

[Danoh]

I believe there is action from us.

Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved;

Col. 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism,



Are you the only one that can have an opinion?

Those two are NOT the SAME Baptism.

 

[Faither]

The Greek word "pisteuo". Probably the most important word that we will ever hear as called out ones. I consider this word to be the "secret of the universe". Because one day, God will reveal the importance of "pisteuo," and everyone will know it was right there in front of us all the time.

I beat this drum of "pisteuo ", because without actively exercising "pisteuo", no one can have the relationship with Christ that the NT talks about. An indwelling Holy Spirit, being in Christ, having Gods nature flowing through us, the word of God being ours to look at like a mirror, the mind of Christ, to be able to have that continual praying without ceasing. Without "pisteuo," none of these things will come to pass.

With those things said, what exactly is "pisteuo?"

"Pisteuo" is the Greek word, a verb, that's corresponds with the Greek word, a noun, "pistis".

When pistis and pisteuo were translated into the English texts, Pistis is where we get our word
"faith", the noun, was no problem. But when the translators tried to find an English word for "pisteuo," there was none. Pisteuo is a verb, An act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

Pisteuo is the word that describes, encompasses, and teaches us what NT saving Faith is. We should have had the words faither, faithing, and to faithe, for the translators to use when translating pisteuo into English. But only because they had no other choice, they had to go with believer, believing, and to believe. The word pisteuo and it's English mistranslations are used over 250 times in the NT. The words believer, believing, and to believe are only one third of what Nt saving Faith is. And building an understanding on any of these three words is not NT saving Faith.

Over the next few days i'm going to post on this thread,certain Scriptures with the vines dictionary meaning in place of the mistranslated words. It will be very hard for many to accept. But remember, this doesn't just affect you, your entire household and family will be affected by this.

Positive comments and good questions only. Please no, "I don't accept the Greek dictionary definitions."



1) John 3:16

English translation : "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever "believes" (mistranslation) in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Greek translation : "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever "pisteuo" surrenders their life and will to Him should not perish but have everlasting life."



2) John 5:24

English translation : "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and "believes" (mistranslation) in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

Greek translation : " Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and "surrenders their life" (pisteuo) to Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."





The reason for the two different translations is the English language has no word for the Greek word Pisteuo. So taking out the mistranslated word "believes" and putting in the Greek definition of pisteuo gives us a better understanding of what the Greek texts were trying to convey.

Pisteuo is used 248 times in the Gospels alone. I'll continue to post the true meanings of other Scriptures

 

[Danoh]

Faither, you are basically asserting Lordship Salvation.

In my first post to you on this I related you would perhaps be drawing on the gospel of John, and his fellow writers, and here we are; exactly what you are doing.

Lordship Salvation is Scriptural.

But, it is not Dispensational.

In Scripture, Lordship Salvation is addressed at Israel and is the issue that He IS their LORD - "the God of your fathers" (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob") but they have turned from Him as a nation, and need to turn back to Him, as a nation, and acknowledge Him as THEIR LORD, by their actions for the rest of them to see no matter what that costs them within said nation.

This is what the Lord is talking about as to their not being ashamed to acknowledge Him as such by their actions before their nation.

This is also what Paul is talking about in Romans 9-11 as to how Israel has ended up on the wrong side of that.

This is a Dispensational issue.

The Gentiles this side of that are not under that.

I'd lay out the passages, but you already basically vomited all over the Gal. 3 passages I posted.

That right there is your "need." Typical of many within the AA "solution," you have ended up trading one insistence for another.

The best towards you as to your "recovery" from that.

 

[Faither]

Faither, you are basically asserting Lordship Salvation.

In my first post to you on this I related you would perhaps be drawing on the gospel of John, and here we are; exactly what you are doing.

Lordship Salvation is Scriptural.

But, it is not Dispensational.

In Scripture, Lordship Salvation is addressed at Israel and is the issue that He IS their LORD but they have turned from Him as a nation, and need to turn back to Him, as a nation, and acknowledge Him as LORD, by their actions for the rest of them to see no matter what that costs them within said nation.

This is what the Lord is talking about as to their not being ashamed to acknowledge Him as such by their actions before their nation.

This is also what Paul is talking about in Romans 9-11 as to how Israel has ended up on the wrong side of that.

This is a Dispensational issue.

The Gentiles this side of that are not under that.

I'd lay out the passages, but you already basically vomited all over the Gal. 3 passages I posted.

That right there is your "need." Typical of many within the AA "solution," you have ended up trading one insistence for another.

The best towards you as to your "recovery" from that.

Oh I won't be quoting only John. LOL

 

[Nick M]

Romans 3

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Go ahead and "fix" this bad translation for us.

Let's see if he continues to ignore this. Probably so.

 

[Danoh]

Oh I won't be quoting only John. LOL

It will matter not. My point still stands...

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

 

[Faither]

It will matter not. My point still stands...

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

Interesting factoid : Of the writers of the Gospels Matthew uses the verb Pisteuo 10 times, Mark 10, Luke 9, and John 99 times.

 

[Interplanner]

The Greek word "pisteuo". Probably the most important word that we will ever hear as called out ones. I consider this word to be the "secret of the universe". Because one day, God will reveal the importance of "pisteuo," and everyone will know it was right there in front of us all the time.

I beat this drum of "pisteuo ", because without actively exercising "pisteuo", no one can have the relationship with Christ that the NT talks about. An indwelling Holy Spirit, being in Christ, having Gods nature flowing through us, the word of God being ours to look at like a mirror, the mind of Christ, to be able to have that continual praying without ceasing. Without "pisteuo," none of these things will come to pass.

With those things said, what exactly is "pisteuo?"

"Pisteuo" is the Greek word, a verb, that's corresponds with the Greek word, a noun, "pistis".

When pistis and pisteuo were translated into the English texts, Pistis is where we get our word
"faith", the noun, was no problem. But when the translators tried to find an English word for "pisteuo," there was none. Pisteuo is a verb, An act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

Pisteuo is the word that describes, encompasses, and teaches us what NT saving Faith is. We should have had the words faither, faithing, and to faithe, for the translators to use when translating pisteuo into English. But only because they had no other choice, they had to go with believer, believing, and to believe. The word pisteuo and it's English mistranslations are used over 250 times in the NT. The words believer, believing, and to believe are only one third of what Nt saving Faith is. And building an understanding on any of these three words is not NT saving Faith.

Over the next few days i'm going to post on this thread,certain Scriptures with the vines dictionary meaning in place of the mistranslated words. It will be very hard for many to accept. But remember, this doesn't just affect you, your entire household and family will be affected by this.

Positive comments and good questions only. Please no, "I don't accept the Greek dictionary definitions."



1) John 3:16

English translation : "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever "believes" (mistranslation) in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Greek translation : "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever "pisteuo" surrenders their life and will to Him should not perish but have everlasting life."



2) John 5:24

English translation : "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and "believes" (mistranslation) in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

Greek translation : " Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and "surrenders their life" (pisteuo) to Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."





The reason for the two different translations is the English language has no word for the Greek word Pisteuo. So taking out the mistranslated word "believes" and putting in the Greek definition of pisteuo gives us a better understanding of what the Greek texts were trying to convey.

Pisteuo is used 248 times in the Gospels alone. I'll continue to post the true meanings of other Scriptures

Could be too many words Faither. Try this: faith without actions is a corpse without a spirit.

 

[Faither]

Could be too many words Faither. Try this: faith without actions is a corpse without a spirit.

Ya, I like that! But its the specific act of surrendering our life and will to God that's hard to swallow. What your understanding on the specific act of Pisteuo?

I'll catch your reply in the am.

 

[Faither]

It will matter not. My point still stands...

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

Accept my apology for not spelling your name right. I've been writing dunoh and I just saw its danoh.

Don't tell musterion! lol