ECT Forgiving and Forgiveness
- Thread starter Psalmist
- Start date
Since 1974, and I don't have a problem with what I believe, and the saving grace of God, or how it came about with the shedding of blood as Jesus said, and Jesus took care of that for me, so part was Romans 10:9-10, 13.
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I thought…
Yes I believe -
Yes I believe -
- In the Trinity (Godhead)
- That God is, with no beginning or ending and all things in between
- That Jesus is the express visible image of the Father (God)
- In the virgin birth of Jesus, and His absolute sinless life
- The Holy Spirit is the indwelling helper/comforter for the born again, blood bought, redeemed believer, that the Holy Spirit indwells the believer and does guide and teach us daily, and brings to remembrance what Jesus has said
- God's Word is accurate and Divinely inspired, it is also quick and powerful and of no private interpretation
- That all the promises concerning Israel will be fulfilled
- In Jesus absolute exemplary life and ministry, and He is my example
- In everything that Jesus began to and teach
- That everything that Jesus did or said is true, especially John 14:6, and what Paul wrote about salvation in Romans 10:8-13
- That Jesus came to seek and save the lost because He is the Lamb of God who takes way the sin of the world
- That Jesus death upon the cross brought salvation, that salvation is by grace through faith, not of works, so that I or nobody else cannot boast -- Jesus said, "It is finished!"
- That all who come to Jesus with true repentance, and confession, and believing in Jesus even though they die in the faith God will raise from the dead as they are saved.
- That Jesus rose from the dead Victor over death and the grave
- That Jesus was seen 40 days after resurrection before His accession to heaven
- That Jesus did bodily ascend back to heaven and a promise of His return as told by the men in white
- That Jesus is the head of the Church, the Church a physical body of believers not a building made with hands
- That the Father sent the Holy Spirit as promised, some call it the upper room experience
- That sanctification is a daily process in the life of the believer to grow more spiritually in the Lord and lose the worldly desires
- The Lord has given spiritual gifts to the Church body, not for self but that God would be glorified
- That the gifts and the calling of God is without repentance
- That the Christ like works of the believer are evidenced in the daily life of the believer
- That the fruit of the spirit for the Christian should be displayed in the life of the believer, as stated/written in the Beatitudes of Matthew five and First Corinthians thirteen, Galatians five twenty-two to twenty-five.
- That one day the Church will come to a unity of the faith, because unlike the church and it’s denominations, Jesus Christ is not divided
- That at a time that only the Father knows, the body of Christ, the Church, the Christian believers both the living and the dead will be gathered away to the Bema Judgment and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb
- That when the restrainer, he who now restrains, will restrain no longer and is taken out of the way, there will a great tribulation, a beginning of sorrows; Jesus said it would be a time that has never been nor will be again
- That there will be a great and fierce battle called Armageddon in which The Lord Jesus Christ will be and is the victor and crushing and defeating Satan
- In the literal and physically, visible, Second Coming of Jesus and will begin His absolute millennial reign on this earth
- There will be a final Great White Throne Judgment for those whose names are not found written in the Book of Life, both the living unregenerate and the dead who were not saved
- That there is a heaven to gain and a hell to shun
- That someday I’ll be in the presence of the Lord, to be with Jesus who loved me and gave Himself for me for eternity.
God's Truth
New member
It is a salvation issue. How are you living through the Spirit if you are not obeying? How is the Spirit living through you if you are not obeying?
You are in a permanent state of disobedience.......you disobey the faith.
We do not even know how to forgive until we are ourselves forgiven.
God's Truth
New member
There is never a wrong time to obey Jesus.
That alone should make you question what you are saying to me.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Is that a rule that people have to know they don't have to forgive in order to be forgiven? A Law per chance?
"IF you don't know you don't have to forgive in order to be forgiven, then you are not saved." |
Where is that written?
I'm just not so sure everyone who quotes that verse actually understands what they are saying. It sounds good, and we all know it's better that we forgive others for our own peace and well being. IMJ gives lots of evidence that she is still under the law and shouldn't be teaching anything, but Psalmist? I don't think so.
You seem way too quick to jump, IMO. You jumped on me and I made it very clear that I knew we did NOT have to forgive in order to be forgiven, but you wouldn't listen. Perhaps you are doing the same here. Be careful not to try to make laws and requirements for salvation that shouldn't be made....that would be adding to the free gift....in direct opposition to what you're hoping to accomplish.
glorydaz
Well-known member
There ya go. :thumb:
We can put on a good act, and we can say we've forgiven, and we can even fool ourselves, but it isn't good enough. Just like all the other acts of "obedience" people claim they "perform".
Forgiving and Forgiveness starts and ends with what Jesus said, it does not negate what other N/T writers have said about, as they solidified what Jesus said. Jesus understands forgiving and forgiveness as no other does, He knows what it takes, Then Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." And they divided His garments and cast lots.Luke 23:34
Mark 11:25-26
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."
Luke 6:36
Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."
Luke 6:36
Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
IMJerusha
New member
You would have had the same thing to say to Paul, I suspect. Paul had no problem being obedient to God's Law while being under Yeshua's. Neither do I. Neither did/do those who believe in Him.
"Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us." 1 John 3:21-24
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IMJerusha
New member
"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand" No one, Heir, not even you. Yeshua spoke that pre-death and resurrection, btw.
You ask what sins have not already been forgiven by God? The ones committed in the face of knowing Him. "No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him." 1 John 3:5
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IMJerusha
New member
I'm not one who says "No" to Yeshua in deference to a doctrine of man's contrivance and I'm not referring to Paul. Paul said "For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3 What you want is lawlessness. Paul never preached lawlessness. What you want is cheap grace. Paul never preached cheap grace.
I would suggest the reading of 1 John to you.
glorydaz
Well-known member
The problem isn't in our obeying anything, it's in thinking our obedience saves us. Our obedience would have to be perfect before we could have what the law promises. So, the fact that you quote the law proves you are still under the schoolmaster. Those who "obey His commands" do not LIVE IN HIM because no man can "obey His commands" except the ONE perfect Lord Jesus Christ. You simply must stop ignoring this important fact. This is what Paul would tell you about citing the verse from John. Obedience to the Law cannot give life.
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
People needs to understand the seriousness of this debate.
People trying to be saved [or trying to maintain their salvation] by obeying commandments are fallen from grace.
Laws and commandments are the letter that killeth.
Jesus said "follow Me" Paul said "be ye imitators of me " it is not obedience to commands but following a way...it is a LIFE.
Fallen from grace even does not mean damned, it means fallen from the blessings and fruits that come from being in Christ, abiding in Him.
...but to teach this as doctrine is a serious matter.
People trying to be saved [or trying to maintain their salvation] by obeying commandments are fallen from grace.
Laws and commandments are the letter that killeth.
Jesus said "follow Me" Paul said "be ye imitators of me " it is not obedience to commands but following a way...it is a LIFE.
Fallen from grace even does not mean damned, it means fallen from the blessings and fruits that come from being in Christ, abiding in Him.
...but to teach this as doctrine is a serious matter.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yes, Jesus forgave, and the Father is merciful. They are perfect. We are not. We are required to be perfect, and I mean really perfect (as our Father in Heaven is perfect). We aren't just talking about forgiving here. That might sound well and good. Of course we all would hope we can forgive anything and everything that might come our way. But, we can't. If we could then Jesus didn't need to come. We could all just work hard and be perfect. Look at this list. Who can claim to be perfect? Who doesn't fall short of the glory of God?
Matt. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matt. 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Matt. 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Matt. 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. Matt. 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matt. 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. Matt. 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Matt. 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Matt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. |
The list is hard so that we will throw up our hands, admit we can't do it, and beg God for His mercy and grace. Until we admit we can't do anything without the Lord, even forgiving, we are giving the law a power it does not have. The law cannot give life. It cannot make us holy. It cannot justify us. We can't be telling people they have to DO something in order to obtain salvation (forgiveness). There is nothing we can do except believe in what our LORD did for us on the cross. That way He gets all the glory and we get NONE.
glorydaz
Well-known member
You need to stop teaching.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I would suggest you get a big roll of duct tape and wrap it around your fingers good and tight. You can still scroll up and down and read what is written. That way you may actually get out of school and understand why Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for all who believe. Since you don't understand that, you're stuck with the schoolmaster at the back of the class. Here's your cap. :dunce:
IMJerusha
New member
The problem is in you not paying attention to Yeshua's words or anything I post. Salvation comes through Yeshua. Obedience comes through the Ruach. And failing to follow both will land you here: "If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."
Big bold font doesn't change Yeshua's Words!
Paul said in 1 Corinthian 9:19-23, "This does not mean that I don't obey God's law; I am really under Christ's law." Me thinks you don't know Paul at all and I'm starting to wonder if you know or have known the Father or the Son.
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