ECT Forgiving and Forgiveness

[Psalmist]

This is a part of the message for Sunday at the retirement and healthcare center where I'm the chaplain.

This is serious instruction about forgiving and forgiveness, how serious is it. I take it very serious, since Jesus said it, I believe it is an absolute truth.

What do you say?

Mark 11:25-26
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Luke 6:36
Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
​

 

[fishrovmen]

I agree. There is much to be said about forgiveness, as hard as it can be.
Not only is forgiveness commanded, but it should be done with haste.
Good post!

 

[God's Truth]

This is a part of the message for Sunday at the retirement and healthcare center where I'm the chaplain.

This is serious instruction about forgiving and forgiveness, how serious is it. I take it very serious, since Jesus said it, I believe it is an absolute truth.

What do you say?

Mark 11:25-26
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Luke 6:36
Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
​

If we do not forgive, God will not forgive us.

 

[jamie]

Forgiving you is easy but forgetting takes the longest time. (Willie Nelson)

 

[revpete]

This is a part of the message for Sunday at the retirement and healthcare center where I'm the chaplain.

This is serious instruction about forgiving and forgiveness, how serious is it. I take it very serious, since Jesus said it, I believe it is an absolute truth.

What do you say?

Mark 11:25-26
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Luke 6:36
Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
​

I feel that real forgiveness has to come from God by His indwelling Holy Spirit. It's easy to say the words "I forgive you" but to mean them is quite another thing. I think the acid test of real forgiveness is being willing to forget. We can't forget but we can be willing to.

Pete

 

[chrysostom]

This is serious instruction about forgiving and forgiveness, how serious is it. I take it very serious, since Jesus said it, I believe it is an absolute truth.

What do you say?

great post/thread psalmist

forgiving is as hard as loving
but
we must do it

you are not loving
if
you are not forgiving

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

[FONT=&quot]Forgiveness is dismissing a debt. In the New Testament, the Greek noun aphesis denotes a "dismissal" or "release." When you grant forgiveness, you dismiss the debt owed to you. When you receive forgiveness, your debt is dismissed. When you grant forgiveness, you dismiss the debt from your thoughts. Forgiveness is dismissing your demand that others owe you something, especially when they fail to meet your expectations... fail to keep a promise... fail to treat you justly.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That said, forgiveness is not [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]- circumventing God's justice[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- waiting for time to heal all wounds[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- letting the guilty off the hook[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
- the same thing as reconciliation[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- excusing unjust behavior[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- explaining away the hurt[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- based on what is fair[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- being a weak martyr[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- stuffing your anger[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- a natural response[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- denying the hurt[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- being a doormat[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- conditional (God mandates it!)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- forgetting[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- a feeling....[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]God commands us to forgive. Forgiveness is an act of the will, it is not some emotion.

[/FONT]Let's dig a wee bit deeper into reconciliation. Is forgiveness the same as reconciliation?

No. Forgiveness is not the same as reconciliation. Forgiveness focuses on the offense, whereas reconciliation focuses on the relationship. Forgiveness requires no relationship. However, reconciliation requires a relationship in which two people, in agreement, are walking together toward the same goal. The Bible says,

"Do two walk together unless they have agreed to do so?" (Amos 3:3)

• Forgiveness can take place with only one person.
  —Reconciliation requires at least two persons.
• Forgiveness is directed one-way.
  —Reconciliation is reciprocal... occurring two-ways.
• Forgiveness is a decision to release the offender.
  —Reconciliation is the effort to rejoin the offender.
• Forgiveness involves a change in thinking about the offender.
  —Reconciliation involves a change in behavior by the offender.
• Forgiveness is a free gift to the one who has broken trust.
  —Reconciliation is a restored relationship based on restored trust.
• Forgiveness is extended even if it is never, ever earned.
  —Reconciliation is offered to the offender because it has been earned.
• Forgiveness is unconditional, regardless of a lack of repentance.
  —Reconciliation is conditional based on repentance.

A question that I am often asked is "After we forgive someone, must we also try to be reconciled?"

My Answer to this question is sometimes yes and sometimes no.

• Most of the time God's desire for us is reconciliation. Second Corinthians 5:18 says, "God... reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation."
• However, sometimes encouraging the restoration of a relationship is not at all wise, as with a partner in adultery or with a rapist. First Corinthians 15:33 says, "Do not be misled: 'Bad company corrupts good character.'" For instance, if a husband's anger is out of control and he refuses to get help for his violent temper, the wife needs to take this Scripture to heart and move out of harm's way until counseling and lasting changes are a part of his lifestyle.

"Do not make friends with a hot-tempered man, do not associate with one easily angered." (Proverbs 22:24)

AMR

 

[chrysostom]

Forgiveness is dismissing a debt

no it isn't
redemption is dismissing the debt
when Jesus suffered and died
we were redeemed
but
our sins were not forgiven
and
we were not saved
to be saved we must repent our trespasses
and
forgive those who trespassed against us

 

[Psalmist]

no it isn't
redemption is dismissing the debt
when Jesus suffered and died
we were redeemed
but
our sins were not forgiven
and
we were not saved
to be saved we must repent our trespasses
and
forgive those who trespassed against us

References.
Biblical chapter and verse.
Proof positive as to what you state.

Forgive our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
​

 

[Word based mystic]

I feel that real forgiveness has to come from God by His indwelling Holy Spirit. It's easy to say the words "I forgive you" but to mean them is quite another thing. I think the acid test of real forgiveness is being willing to forget. We can't forget but we can be willing to.

Pete ��

sort of.

forgetting may not be a responsible thing for shepherds.

you can forgive someone who is a wolf. but you don't forget.

you forgive the pedophile but you don't let him loose as a children's minister.

relationships are built on trust.

i do not leave my money around in a setting where there is a historical thief.

i do not allow people to teach or pray for people that have a history of bad theology or continual sin in their lives.

 

[Word based mystic]

unforgiveness harms the victim and the abuser.

it is like a rock in ones hands the longer you look at it the bigger and heavier it gets.


If your eyes are on the offense, your eyes are not on God and seeing the kingdom of God.

true God inspired forgiveness is birthed out of Love. Gods shows and showed his love for us by forgiving us. And through the comprehension/experience of that and through the Spirits empowerment/grace we can properly forgive others and bless them with prophetic prayers for that persons good.

seeing the offender through Gods eyes of Love is key.
God has good plans for all his created children and if we ask God to see through His eyes of love the kingdom of God grows.

 

[ebenz47037]

unforgiveness harms the victim and the abuser.

it is like a rock in ones hands the longer you look at it the bigger and heavier it gets.


If your eyes are on the offense, your eyes are not on God and seeing the kingdom of God.

true God inspired forgiveness is birthed out of Love. Gods shows and showed his love for us by forgiving us. And through the comprehension/experience of that and through the Spirits empowerment/grace we can properly forgive others and bless them with prophetic prayers for that persons good.

seeing the offender through Gods eyes of Love is key.
God has good plans for all his created children and if we ask God to see through His eyes of love the kingdom of God grows.

This is what I believe about forgiveness. It has taken me many years to come to this belief. But, I learned it when my mom's husband died. He was in the hospital and my mom called me to let me know that he was dying. After we hung up, I prayed that God either heal him completely or take him quickly. I also prayed that God would somehow help my mother get through it because she has never been on her own. Instantly, all of the anger I had held inside for (at that time) the last twenty years at her for the abuse I suffered as a child had disappeared. When she called me back, ten minutes later, to tell me that Louie had died, I told her that I forgave her and that I wanted her to move back to Indiana from California so that I could help her get through at least the beginning of her grieving process. I've come to realize that the anger I had for her had gone a long way toward creating the person I was then. I was stubborn and didn't trust anyone. I didn't believe that anyone could love me because I was a miserable wretch (I actually thought my late husband loving me was a fluke). I'm still a little stubborn and I don't trust easily. But, I've improved greatly since forgiving my mother. I also believe that I deserve to be loved because God loves me.

 

[Tambora]

This is a part of the message for Sunday at the retirement and healthcare center where I'm the chaplain.

This is serious instruction about forgiving and forgiveness, how serious is it. I take it very serious, since Jesus said it, I believe it is an absolute truth.

What do you say?

Mark 11:25-26
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Luke 6:36
Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
​

Let's really think about this.

Your Father in heaven does not forgive unless you first do it to others.
Or in other words, if you don't do it first, God won't do it for you.
It's a tit-for-tat arrangement.

But then we have:

Luke 23 KJV
(34) Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.​

If Mark 11:25-26 is a blanket rule (without exception) to all for all time, the question naturally arises ....... if Jesus only did His Father's will of not forgiving any unless they first forgave others, then why would Jesus ask the Father to forgo that tit-for-tat conditional rule and forgive these folks before they had forgiven all others?
:think:

 

[nikolai_42]

This is a part of the message for Sunday at the retirement and healthcare center where I'm the chaplain.

This is serious instruction about forgiving and forgiveness, how serious is it. I take it very serious, since Jesus said it, I believe it is an absolute truth.

What do you say?

Mark 11:25-26
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Luke 6:36
Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
​

I've always considered this the unmistakeable mark of someone who is in Christ. It can't be feigned. If you don't forgive someone, it becomes apparent. When that which is close(st) to us is taken from us or we are wronged deeply (in that which we are most sensitive), we react and get very upset. We grieve. We lash out. If that which is most dear to us is taken from us, we are simply unable to bring ourselves to permit it to happen without retribution. We simply cannot bear the grievance alone. But to the one in Christ, He is that which is nearest and dearest to our heart - and nothing can separate us from His love. So simply by virtue of always being able to say "But I still have Christ" we are afforded that comfort and strength which allows us to forgive. Our being in Christ means that - as far as we are concerned - retribution is taken care of. Christ bore OUR sins and our freedom means we are able to forgive those that sin against us. Not to do so seems to me to be a denial of the Savior's work.

But without the Spirit of God, this is impossible.

Christ's command to forgive is interesting. At once, He is invoking the Law ("Do this or else...") yet at the same time, the very nature of the command is to remove the curse of the Law. And, as said above, that is only possible by virtue of Him who was made a curse for us. It ties quite nicely in with the "golden rule" that countless numbers have recited :

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Luke 6:31

And Matthew has it thus :

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew 7:12

David, after his final deliverance from the wrath of the Philistines, praises the Lord for His salvation. In the course of that hymn (found also in Psalm 18) he says this :

With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself unsavoury.
2 Samuel 22:27

Which may seem to simply be a command to be good or God will be bad to you. But from day 1, we see God's mercy evident even in the midst of His judgments. The Law was only one part of the full revelation of God. Without Christ, those commands are still against us and we are still powerless to fulfill them. But in Christ, all is fulfilled and it is fulfilled in us if we are in Him (and He in us).

In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
I John 4:9-11

So when we return to Luke 6 and read the context of the golden rule, we find Jesus saying love your enemies, pray for your persecutors, give to everyone who asks, do good to those who use you, don't expect good in return, be merciful as God is merciful - and the oft abused "judge not lest ye be judged". Jesus is continuing to go beyond the letter of the law, but not so that He can add commandments we need to fulfill - rather that we see what it is that this Divine Love looks like. Then, once we have the Spirit of God, we find the ability to do what is here commanded - because it was Christ who first fulfilled it and now can fulfill it in and through us.

Not sure I pulled these scriptures together really well, but I wanted to show how I see that passage as FAR more than just another injunction. Of course, I may not have done that very well either...

 

[brinny]

I feel that real forgiveness has to come from God by His indwelling Holy Spirit. It's easy to say the words "I forgive you" but to mean them is quite another thing. I think the acid test of real forgiveness is being willing to forget. We can't forget but we can be willing to.

Pete

I agree that forgiveness that is genuinely healing for the one doing the forgiving, is possible only through the Holy Spirit. It is God alone Who gives us the unction and strength to forgive. We cannot forgive in our own strength.

As we forgive, we are healed in our bodies, minds, and spirits, and we are set free. Only through God is this possible.

Thank you kindly.

 

[heir]

This is a part of the message for Sunday at the retirement and healthcare center where I'm the chaplain.

This is serious instruction about forgiving and forgiveness, how serious is it. I take it very serious, since Jesus said it, I believe it is an absolute truth.

What do you say?

Mark 11:25-26
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Luke 6:36
Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
​

Why would your pattern for forgiving another come from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? It's not written to anyone in the dispensation of the grace of God. It is written TO the lost sheep of the house of Israel, to whom Jesus was sent while on earth (Matthew 15:24 KJV, Romans 15:8 KJV).

Our pattern for forgiving one another is that we should because God for Christ's sake hath forgiven us.

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

And as to God not forgiving us our trespasses, just how many of your trespasses do you believe are not forgiven already (Colossians 2:13 KJV)?

I'm surprised at the OP coming from you, Psalmist. I thought you knew better; especially considering you are a chaplain. You really need to get into Romans through Philemon and consider what Paul says (2 Timothy 1:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:7-8 KJV).

 

[chrysostom]

no it isn't
redemption is dismissing the debt
when Jesus suffered and died
we were redeemed
but
our sins were not forgiven
and
we were not saved
to be saved we must repent our trespasses
and
forgive those who trespassed against us

References.
Biblical chapter and verse.
Proof positive as to what you state.

Forgive our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
​

just add a little common sense to the scripture in you opening post

This is a part of the message for Sunday at the retirement and healthcare center where I'm the chaplain.

This is serious instruction about forgiving and forgiveness, how serious is it. I take it very serious, since Jesus said it, I believe it is an absolute truth.

What do you say?

Mark 11:25-26
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Luke 6:36
Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
​

what did Jesus accomplish with his suffering and death on the cross
if
the Father will not forgive you
if
you do not forgive

 

[Psalmist]

just add a little common sense to the scripture in you opening post

You must think I'm really not very bright; I thought for sure your find Scriptural references that would open some discussion, well so much for that.

I guess Martin Luther was wrong, they still have the Holy Bible chained to the pulpit.​

 

[chrysostom]

You must think I'm really not very bright; I thought for sure your find Scriptural references that would open some discussion, well so much for that.

I guess Martin Luther was wrong, they still have the Holy Bible chained to the pulpit.​

are you going to answer the question?

what did Jesus accomplish with his suffering and death on the cross
if
the Father will not forgive you
if
you do not forgive

 

[chrysostom]

great post/thread psalmist

forgiving is as hard as loving
but
we must do it

you are not loving
if
you are not forgiving

this is my first response in this thread
and
all I did was disagree with what amr posted
but
amr had not responded

why does anyone else need to?