ECT Forgiving and Forgiveness

[Psalmist]

With forgiving and forgiveness.
Is this unconditional?
Without consequences?
To be forgotten?

Some people seem to steep in their forgiveness like a tea bag in a cup of hot water. Maybe someday they'll let it go.
​

forgiving and forgiveness
are
two different things
so
I don't understand the questions

Sorry about that, I just kept the two words, forgiving and forgiveness together.

In forgiving someone for whatever, is that forgiveness given with with or without conditions.

Are there no consequences to be suffered.

Is the thing that is forgiven to completely forgotten. ​

 

[chrysostom]

In forgiving someone for whatever, is that forgiveness given with with or without conditions.

I am still confused by that

when you forgive someone
no one is forgiven
neither you nor the person you forgave
only God can do that
and
you have to ask for it

having said that
I will attempt to address your questions
it should be unconditional
it should be without consequences
it should be completely forgotten
but
it never is
and
that should not prevent you from forgiving anyone

 

[oatmeal]

This is a part of the message for Sunday at the retirement and healthcare center where I'm the chaplain.

This is serious instruction about forgiving and forgiveness, how serious is it. I take it very serious, since Jesus said it, I believe it is an absolute truth.

What do you say?

Mark 11:25-26
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Luke 6:36
Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
​

The benefits to us and to those whom we forgive their sins and trespasses against us are great.

That is part of Ephesians 4:1-3 that cannot be done with out the forgiveness that comes from humility and meekness and longsuffering and forbearing one another in love

Jesus said what people under the law needed to hear.

He reminded them of the need to live the truth in every facet of their lives under the law.

Jesus Christ accomplished something that enabled believers to live in grace not under the law.

When he died for us and paid for our sins in full, our forgiveness was no longer dependent on whether we forgive or not. We forgive because of what God did in Christ to remit and forgive our sins.

Ephesians 4:32 KJV

And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Our salvation, our righteousness is no longer dependent on our keeping of the law, but on the completed works of Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:16-21

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[Psalmist]

The benefits to us and to those whom we forgive their sins and trespasses against us are great.

Great post and Amen! and Amen!​

 

[Psalmist]

Forgiving and Forgiveness

Is there a sin of forgiveness?

I think a person who is unforgiving is likes to carry around extra baggage because the just cannot let it go.

Even if Jesus Himself would say, "Loose it and let it go, they would say, "But Lord." ​

 

[chrysostom]

Forgiving and Forgiveness

Is there a sin of forgiveness?

I think a person who is unforgiving is likes to carry around extra baggage because the just cannot let it go.

Even if Jesus Himself would say, "Loose it and let it go, they would say, "But Lord." ​

is it a sin not to forgive?

just like it is a sin not to love your neighbor

oh yes

you can't love your neighbor
if
you can't forgive him

what about forgiving yourself
for some that may be the toughest thing to do

 

[brinny]

Forgiving and Forgiveness

Is there a sin of forgiveness?

I think a person who is unforgiving is likes to carry around extra baggage because the just cannot let it go.

Even if Jesus Himself would say, "Loose it and let it go, they would say, "But Lord." ​

Awwwww that's true, and sometimes Jesus has to minister to us to TRUST Him to let it go, for perhaps it has become a "security blanket" of sorts for someone who has been traumatized and hypervigilant as one of the symptoms of the trauma and/or traumas. They must learn that Jesus IS safe. Only Jesus can reach a heart behind a fortress, hiding, and like a spooked horse, striking out at anything that attempts to come near.

Only Jesus can coax this "spooked-horse-of-a-traumatized-soul" from their hiding place.

He is ALREADY working in their heart to forgive, as only He can. And He will SURELY complete what He started in their precious heart.

The traumatized-beyond-recognition-one is transformed to the very one who He will use to bless the one who did the unspeakable damage.

And Satan is knocked to smithereens. He hasn't got either one of them. God triumphs. He now has TWO souls snatched from the jaws of destruction.

And there is celebration the likes none of us have seen this side of heaven.

Forgiveness: disarming Satan one forgiving soul at a time.

 

[chrysostom]

I found it very interesting that we really did not hear that much about forgiveness until the priest scandal

 

[Psalmist]

is it a sin not to forgive?

just like it is a sin not to love your neighbor

oh yes

you can't love your neighbor
if
you can't forgive him

what about forgiving yourself
for some that may be the toughest thing to do

I'm a bit slow about that one.​

 

[IMJerusha]

No, just you. :chuckle:

Always seeking a way to demean and glorying in it. Nothing about that representative of Yeshua especially when using Yeshua to do it. Don't you care enough about Him to refrain from that or do you assume He died so you could do that? "Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him." 1 John 3:4-6 (written post resurrection to believers in Yeshua). I would suggest continuing in the reading of that chapter.

The Law says man has to perform, and Grace says our LORD did the performing. We are to believe and trust in that...not in ourselves.

Trusting in God and abiding in His Grace doesn't mean walking in lawlessness. Yeshua is the embodiment of the Law. He never stated that we weren't to be obedient; just the opposite. "If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love." John 15:10

Our Lord preached the Law when He walked this earth, but then He was crucified, buried, and rose from the dead. The CROSS really did make a difference, IMJ. The RISEN LORD preached another message, ie that He is the end of the LAW for righteousness. BECAUSE He did the performing (work). Until you understand that, you'll continue to make these ignorant statements. :nono:

So, you believe that because Yeshua died and rose from death that He is no longer obedient to the Father; that He no longer loves the Lord with all His Heart, Soul, Strength and Mind? Does Yeshua no longer love us as He loves Himself? Yes, the CROSS made a difference....to us. It didn't change God's expectations of us nor did it change the Father's expectations of His Son. You can not claim Yeshua's Work and continue to walk in lawlessness. And don't go quoting the "new creature" verses because the fact is that anyone who is a new creature in Yeshua is one who does not walk in lawlessness but rather walks in obedience according to the Law ie. loving the Lord with all our heart, soul, strength and mind and loving our neighbors as ourselves. Best be reading Revelation, Glorydaz. Yeshua is very clear about His expectations. "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." Revelation 22:12-15
Kiddo, that's Yeshua (post resurrection) talking about the Law and about Him using it to judge everyone's actions. I don't believe my statements are the least bit ignorant....just accepting of Yeshua's Words.

 

[heir]

What it reads like with verse 5 added.

1 Cor. 15:1-5 (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: ​

The seperate addition of 6-10 would have been a nice addition too.

1 Cor. 15:6-10 (KJV)
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Then there is a better understanding of what is being dealt with.​

You are Mad.
​

Paul declared the good news of Christ (the gospel of Christ that is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth Romans 1:16-17 KJV) in verses 3 and 4 (1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV). When one trusts the Lord after hearing and believing IT (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), they are saved and sealed (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)! If Christ died for one of our sins (and He did), He died for them all (and He did). God raising Him from the dead proves our sin/sins debt (Romans 3:23 KJV, Romans 5:12 KJV, 6:23 KJV) is forgiven (Colossians 2:13 KJV). There's NOTHING LEFT for God TO FORGIVE us of! It was finished 2000 years before we were even born!

Why don't you believe God has already forgiven you all trespasses as Paul wrote in Colossians 2:13 KJV?

 

[heir]

No, by the Name of Yeshua HaMashiach, Jesus Christ, YOU stop!

No. We were NEVER commanded that we must forgive to be forgiven by God. We're already forgiven (Ephesians 4:32 KJV, Colossians 2:13 KJV)! Those who preach that we aren't have had their minds corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ (2 Corinthians 11:3 KJV) and furthermore are preaching an other gospel than that which Paul preached "unto" us. It doesn't matter who they are:


Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[heir]

It's been a while since I've seen a more shining example of the hubris that is Dispensationalism.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV

2 Timothy 2:8-9 KJV

 

[heir]

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

That's a time past message to Israel that has NOTHING to do with the "but now" or the dispensation of the grace of God. You'd know that if you were saved and studying the approved unto God way by rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV).

What sins of yours have not already been forgiven by God?

You're just another who claims to be in the faith yet when shown over and over that you are forgiven all trespasses, you refuse to believe it (2 Timothy 3:8 KJV).

 

[Totton Linnet]

It is not a salvation issue, it is how we walk with the Lord once we are saved and how we relate both to the Father and people.

 

[Psalmist]

It is not a salvation issue, it is how we walk with the Lord once we are saved and how we relate both to the Father and people.

Right, I agree.

Bottom line, final answer.

Mark 11:25-26
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Luke 6:36
Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
​

 

[heir]

Right, I agree.

Bottom line, final answer.

Mark 11:25-26
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Luke 6:36
Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.

It is not the final answer! Christ spoke again at His appearing(s) to the apostle Paul (2 Timothy 1:8-10 KJV) to us (Romans 11:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:11 KJV) and the message is total forgiveness by the cross work of the Lord Jesus Christ and God raising Him from the dead Romans 4:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:19-21 KJV, Colossians 2:11-13 KJV!

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 

[chrysostom]

It is not a salvation issue,

wrong
so wrong
God will not forgive you
if
you don't forgive
and
there is no salvation for those who do not forgive

 

[Psalmist]

It is not the final answer! Christ spoke again at His appearing(s) to the apostle Paul (2 Timothy 1:8-10 KJV) to us (Romans 11:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:11 KJV) and the message is total forgiveness by the cross work of the Lord Jesus Christ and God raising Him from the dead Romans 4:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:19-21 KJV, Colossians 2:11-13 KJV!

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

You must be a head hunter.

:e4e:​

 

[heir]

You must be a head hunter.

:e4e:​

Nope! I'm an ambassador for Christ committed to the word of reconciliation! I'm here to testify that FORGIVENESS is a done deal!

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
...
Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
...


Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


It's time you believe it!