....what we now have is a new nature
ECT Forgiving and Forgiveness
- Thread starter Psalmist
- Start date
A thought... those two passages and their settings are not the same.
In the one, Job's enduring faith is being proven as just that: enduring. In the other, the guy himself has given himself over to his flesh.
In the one, Satan himself is messing with Job.
The other applies even more so today.
In the other, it is "the coarse of this world" that Satan unleashed through Adam's fall in Gen. 3, per Eph. 2, that the flesh is ever lured to and that the Corinthian passage is relating that individual gave himself over to.
Thus; the issue of the flesh's destruction he is reaping upon himself by his own will; Rom. 12:1, 2; Gal. 6:8.
In the one, Job's faith is being proven unshakeable.
In the other, the guy himself has walked away from the faith to the ways of the flesh he allowed his old perspective [from back when he was lost, 1 Cor. 6:11] to once more dominate him, Rom. 6 thru 8.
do you sin?
You won't really understand that question unless you are born again...
Our whole nature is changed, instead if being sin conscious we are God conscious, we have the life of Christ.
It is not a fancy doctrine, a cliché, it is something that has happened when we are saved. Our desires are changed...whereas before we were hell bent for sin we are now set for heaven...it is not following commandments it is living a life...the life of Christ.
Sin doesn't figure
We still have a body of flesh and the body of flesh has it's desires, the trick is to learn to live according to the new nature of Christ in us.
We learn the things that please God and the things that displease God. THAT is a process but as for sin that is gone agone, since He bare our sins in His own body on the tree...how can I bear them?
Not all or even many Christians have learned this.
The point is this...the more you struggle and fight with sin, the more you are going to sin.
Get the revelation, Christ hath borne our sins...the devil [so far as we are concerned ] is TOTALLY defeated.
Even though Christians fail to learn these things when they are saved it is true for everyone who is born again. What is at stake is no longer salvation but whether or not we are enjoying our walk with God, whether or not we can be useful.
so
no one can claim they don't sin
if
it can be shown paul couldn't stop sinning
you don't have to be born again to understand that
no wonder they have so much trouble interpreting this
2 Corinthians 12:7 (KJV)
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
The Apostle Paul's God given perspective on this issue and its mechanics after one is saved - Romans 7:
20. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
By "a law" in the following, he is speaking of the mechanics of a thing, of how things operate - a principle, or rule of thumb to be taken into consideration as one attempts to understand a thing.
21. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me
into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24. O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
He delights in serving God's principle - of serving God this side of salvation - the principle of the inward man; of who God has made him in His Son.
He'll go into this principle in more depth in Romans 8. This is his "law of my mind."
That is this here also - Romans 12:
1. I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
The operating principle of the mind renewed by the Word's instruction in those details concerning the New Man and how he operates, and so on.
At the same time he finds another general rule of thumb at work.
The law of sin, and its resulting death in the Believer this side of Grace, when the Believer attempts to obey in his own strength, as had been the case under the Law of Moses.
That Law having functioned as a schoolmaster through failure. For example, tell a child not to eat any cookies before dinner, and what does the precious little tyke do, lol
The thing to do as a child of God this side of Grace, is to serve with the mind.
In other words, in light of information about who God has made the Believer in His Son, this side of the Cross, He nailed the Law of Moses to.
Its a different system!
The former one having been meant to bring about failure - "now we know," Rom. 3:19.
The Grace Principle is now the law, or operating principle - Romans 8 "the Spirit of life" - of life in Christ Jesus!"
Romans 7 is Saul not Paul
You can't seriously believe that the great apostle served sin with his flesh....
You can't seriously believe that the great apostle served sin with his flesh....
who said that?
I missed the part which says the thorn was sin
Paul in Romans 7. 25.
Romans 7 was written for "those who know the law" and describes how the law operates on the religious but unsaved person, they are under conviction of sin. He wants to do good but he does evil instead.
Who shall deliver such a one...thanks be to God Christ Jesus.
Romans ch.8 goes on to show what life is in the Spirit as opposed to under the law.
There is not a scrap of difference in Christ's doctrine and Paul.
"If the Son shall set you free you shall be free indeed"
Let each one know tonight if they are free indeed.
People within Mid-Acts differ in their understanding of this aspect - of whether it is Saul or Paul there, as they do as to other aspects of this Epistle of his to the Romans.
And I am fine with that - "not for that we would have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy; for by faith ye stand," 2 Cor. 1:24.
In that spirit, I'll share my own perspective on these things...
Lost people do not delight "in the law of God," let alone, "after the inward man" [principle] said "law of God" is a reference to.
Rather, Paul is relating that to those Jews at Rome, in the Body, still holding to the Law...
And being that Paul is relating general principles as to all this, he was, and has continued - through these general rules of thumb - to address all that have ended up reading said Epistle, down through the ages, whether lost or saved, or saved but confused.
In this, the general rule of thumb that "the names have changed, but the game has remained the same" remains one more general "same, and yet different," rule of thumb, or principle, that has continued to apply.
Personally, I enjoy exploring these differences in our Mid-Acts understanding.
But lest some take advantage of that, I'll add that that differs from the need some have to hound others within Mid-Acts year after year, insisting they alone are right. Those, I will ignore, but for a comment against their lust to glory in the flesh of others.
Christ was sent to the "Lost Sheep of Israel." Paul, on the other
hand was sent to the gentiles to preach the "Grace Message."
Christ and the other Apostles preached the "Kingdom Message"
to the House of Israel.
Peter warned the Catholics of the future about Paul? That's interesting.
You are following Spurgeon's logic there, he thought it could not be an unsaved person because sin means little to the unsaved...but sin DOES mean much to the Jew under the law and to religious but unsaved people.
I am not mid-acts though I hold Paul to be our apostle.
Yep, Paul preached the "Grace Message" to the gentiles. Today, both
Jew and gentile follow that same Message. Paul's Gospel, that is.