ECT Attention! Everyone who doesn't like MAD!

Attention! Everyone who doesn't like MAD!

  • It denies water baptism.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It denies the place of the Law in the life of the believer.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Yep. They'll tacitly agree to that much, usually, because they aren't bringing animal sacrifices. But when you show them from their own Bible that no one before Paul preached the death, burial and resurrection of Christ for the sin of all without distinction, without works (there's a reason Paul noted that) and without law, their knives come out. They WILL NOT tolerate it...as a Baptist once told me, "You're trying to take away my [water] baptism!"

God Himself preached and promised the life, death, and resurrection (victory) of the male Seed over Satan, in Genesis 3:15.

He just did not quote Paul.

The gospel promises never change, because God nor His Word ever change. That is the very basis for divine covenant.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
If Abraham is revealed as being the "father" of faith (Romans 4:11-16), then we believers walk in his same steps, and possess the same gift of faith as he.

If our faith is based upon the propositions of Truth, as revealed to us by the Holy Spirit, of the purpose of the Christ promised, I then contend Abraham was given the same saving spiritual knowledge.


That is because you made it up, not surveying and studying the book, much less paying attentions to its details, instead, believing your Clavinist/"reformed"(uninformed) "church" SOF, Clavinist books/websites/articles....


1 Peter 10 KJV

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen[a] you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.

Read it:To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us


Even the prophets, who did the "revealing," did not "get it all"-Peter's "dispersia" audience "got more" understanding than the prophets had.

MADists teach faith before the Incarnation was blind or only suggestive at best. Or they are teaching works.

False dichotomy, and a false, satanic charge on your part, against both dispensational and MAD proponents. Your father taught you well.





For example, MAD teaches that .O. T. believers were saved through blessing Israel . . Rahab being heir's latest example. That kind of faith is blind to the promises of the Father of the Christ and it is a form of works.


Show us one MAD proponent that ever "argued" that:

O. T. believers were saved through blessing Israel.


I strongly disagree that the gospel that saves souls, has ever changed, because the God of that Everlasting Gospel, reveals the Person of God Himself, immutable.


You disagree, and you are a mess, and come to that conclusion, because you are clueless as to what the term "gospel" means, and, because you "teach"(loosely employed here) like a kindergartner, assert, that there is just one piece of good news in the bible. Listen, nasty:

The good news that saves souls, "the gospel that saves souls," 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, is not equivalent to the everlasting good news, that "Everlasting Gospel" you cite from Revelation-you made that up. You did that, because you do not study the details of the bible. My evidence? Your "posts." Clueless.

By your "argument," again, your Saint Judas preached the "good news" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV. And you are proposing to teach us dispensational/MAD proponents, a few thins, Lucy? Have a seat.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
I agree. MAD still advocates a large portion of humanity can only hope and will only be saved by works. By blessing national Israel.

Show us one MAD proponent, with the quotes, that argued "a large portion of humanity can only hope and will only be saved by.. blessing national Israel."
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
I agree. MAD still advocates a large portion of humanity can only hope and will only be saved by works. By blessing national Israel.

Show us one MAD proponent, with the quotes, that argued(es) "a large portion of humanity can only hope and will only be saved by.. blessing national Israel."
 

musterion

Well-known member
I like this part:

And notice the gradual change in the message, as Paul boldly states:

"Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." Acts 13:38-39 KJV
Now why in the world did Paul feel the need to tell these Jews they couldn't be justified by the Law? Didn't all Jews know that? Where did he get the idea that, evidently, Jews did believe they could be justified by the Law?
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Noah preceded and fathered Abraham.

You are just guessing about these holy matters and show you need to do some serious and more careful study.

I occasionally make mistakes-I was predestined.


My briiliant article stands, you biblical ignoramous-clueless. Nowhere in Matthew-John, prior to the death, burial, resurrection, did the content of faith, required to be believed, include believing in:

Death
Burial
Reasurrection

1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV good news

You cannot show us, can you, nasty one?

Show us.

You won't. You're not in my league.
 

vfirestormv

Member
The cross was God's means of fulfilling the promise of saving a people through the Seed of the woman, who would rectify and overcome the ramifications of Adam's fall into bondage to sin.

The cross can become a superstitious idol.

We place our faith in the Man crucified on a cross, but not on the means or event; nor God's timing to provide this blessed salvation.

Knowledge of the promised Mediator and Savior, is the basis of grace and faith . . not specific knowledge of Romans practicing crucifixions!

Obviously my post was not what the cross done for us. It was what happened at the cross, who was on the cross, the reason He was on the cross, that finished work at the cross. But I did not think I had to spell all that out as I figured that everyone would get what I was talking about when I said the cross. We sure weren't looking to the nameless thieves or anyone else that had been crucified.

And I would just add to that as you say "but not the means", while that is true, though He couldn't have died any other way. He fulfilled scripture perfectly. If He had been, for example, choked to death, He would not have fulfilled scripture and therefore I would refer to Him as him with a little "h" because He would not have been the Christ. So, yes, I only put my faith in Him and not the means but the means could not have happened any other way.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Yep. They'll tacitly agree to that much, usually, because they aren't bringing animal sacrifices. But when you show them from their own Bible that no one before Paul preached the death, burial and resurrection of Christ for the sin of all without distinction, without works (there's a reason Paul noted that) and without law, their knives come out. They WILL NOT tolerate it...as a Baptist once told me, "You're trying to take away my [water] baptism!"

And I just challenged nast Naggie, as I've others, to show us, chapter and verse, where the 12(which included her Saint Judas), ever preached, prior to the dbr..
.
"Hey everyone!!!! Good news!!!! The Master is going to die for our/your sins...be buried,......raised again for your justification!!!! Believe this good news, to be saved/justified!!!!!!!!!!!!"

=1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV

They cannot. Even the Lord Jesus Christ did not preach this during His earthly ministry, not even revealing until late in His ministry, that He was to die, while, up until this time, the 12, including Judas, were preaching the same good news that He was-"the gospel of the kingdom." Peter tried twice to prevent His death, the very death, that was the basis for his reconciliation, a "pre-req" to justification. And on, and on....

You won't hear a peep out of them, except for perhaps more emotionall pleas/grunts/snorts/mutterings/stock cliches, along the lines of "Just one gospel!!! Cult!!! It all says the same thing!!! One unified message!!!Bible choppers!!! Cherry pickers!!!........................"
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
How about a little pig latin from you Tiny Timothy O., instead of all this so impressive pistos jazz? Please?

How 'bout some faith from you instead of that hope masqerading AS faith so that all your law methodology works are sin.

Too bad TOL can't take chemo treatments and rid us of you.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
And I just challenged nast Naggie, as I've others, to show us, chapter and verse, where the 12(which included her Saint Judas), ever preached, prior to the dbr..
.
"Hey everyone!!!! Good news!!!! The Master is going to die for our/your sins...be buried,......raised again for your justification!!!! Believe this good news, to be saved/justified!!!!!!!!!!!!"

=1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV

They cannot. Even the Lord Jesus Christ did not preach this during His earthly ministry, not even revealing until late in His ministry, that He was to die, while, up until this time, the 12, including Judas, were preaching the same good news that He was-"the gospel of the kingdom." Peter tried twice to prevent His death, the very death, that was the basis for his reconciliation, a "pre-req" to justification. And on, and on....

You won't hear a peep out of them, except for perhaps more emotionall pleas/grunts/snorts/mutterings/stock cliches, along the lines of "Just one gospel!!! Cult!!! It all says the same thing!!! One unified message!!!Bible choppers!!! Cherry pickers!!!........................"

Just one example: Read Mark 10:33-34
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
The good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV:

Death
Burial
Resurrection


Luke 18 KJV

31 Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished. 32 For He will be delivered to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon. 33 They will scourge Him and kill Him. And the third day He will rise again.”

34 But they understood none of these things; this saying was hidden from them, and they did not know the things which were spoken.


No progressive revelation....All were required to believe the same thing!!!!


Sure there isn't/they were.

"It's not that complicated."-STP
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Obviously my post was not what the cross done for us. It was what happened at the cross, who was on the cross, the reason He was on the cross, that finished work at the cross. But I did not think I had to spell all that out as I figured that everyone would get what I was talking about when I said the cross. We sure weren't looking to the nameless thieves or anyone else that had been crucified.

And I would just add to that as you say "but not the means", while that is true, though He couldn't have died any other way. He fulfilled scripture perfectly. If He had been, for example, choked to death, He would not have fulfilled scripture and therefore I would refer to Him as him with a little "h" because He would not have been the Christ. So, yes, I only put my faith in Him and not the means but the means could not have happened any other way.

My reply re: the cross, was not to criticize your post, but to ward off some other arguments, that often pop up.

MAD does not believe any of us proclaim the gospel if we do not quote I Corinthians 15:1-4, and they have become superstitious about it, and made it a mantra.

My point was that the gospel of the dbr permeates all of Holy Scripture.

I agree with you that the cross was prophesied; especially in Psalm 22, and fulfilled exactly by Jesus on the cross.

I apologize to you if I offended you . . .

Nang
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
The good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV:

Death
Burial
Resurrection


Luke 18 KJV

31 Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished. 32 For He will be delivered to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon. 33 They will scourge Him and kill Him. And the third day He will rise again.”

34 But they understood none of these things; this saying was hidden from them, and they did not know the things which were spoken.


No progressive revelation....All were required to believe the same thing!!!!


Sure there isn't/they were.

"It's not that complicated."-STP

There is a difference between your denying the one true gospel has always been proclaimed to mankind, and discussing whether all mankind has been given spiritual understanding of the gospel via the grace of the Holy Spirit.

Choose your doctrinal arguments more closely, please . . .
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
How 'bout some faith from you instead of that hope masqerading AS faith so that all your law methodology works are sin.

Too bad TOL can't take chemo treatments and rid us of you.

Good one! A child of the devil, that cannot put a string of English statements together, expounding on passages, but merely spams his pot induced spams, mutterings, snorts.......challenging a forever justified saint, the great, humble, feared, saint John W. Nice "Big Top" act. And just who are you, again? Oh, yes. Mr./Mrs. Irrelevant junkie.

You dig Harley Davidson? I'm thinking of buying the stock.

"methodology works"

Made up. Nice emotional sound byte, though, toots. Weighty.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
There is a difference between denying the one true gospel has always been proclaimed to mankind, and discussing whether all mankind has been given spiritual understanding of the gospel via the grace of the Holy Spirit.

Choose your doctrinal arguments more closely, please . . .

Did the troll-ette, biblical clueless nasty,adress Luke 18KJV ff, show us,

"chapter and verse, where the 12(which included her Saint Judas), ever preached, prior to the dbr...

"Hey everyone!!!! Good news!!!! The Master is going to die for our/your sins...be buried,......raised again for your justification!!!! Believe this good news, to be saved/justified!!!!!!!!!!!!"

=1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV"


Nope. Just as I predicted-an emotional response- just one piece of good news..............wa, wa, wa, wine, wine, mutterings.............

"denying the one true gospel has always been proclaimed to mankind"-nasty clueless Naggie


=Just one piece of good news proclaimed to mankind.

No scripture testifies to that. Your church SOF does. That is what you study.

Naggie: The same "one true gospel" my Saint Judas preached!!! You go, Jude!

With no scripture to back it, as I have provided.

You made it up-the 12 had no clue that the Masrer would die, and rise again, per the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, and yet they werer preaching "ther gospel of the kingdom," the good news of the coming kingdom of heaven upon the earth, for 3 years.


Have a seat-you are embarrassing yourself. Stay on the mat.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Did the troll-ette, biblical clueless nasty,adress Luke 18KJV ff, show us,

"chapter and verse, where the 12(which included her Saint Judas), ever preached, prior to the dbr...

"Hey everyone!!!! Good news!!!! The Master is going to die for our/your sins...be buried,......raised again for your justification!!!! Believe this good news, to be saved/justified!!!!!!!!!!!!"

=1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV"


Nope. Just as I predicted-an emotional response- just one piece of good news..............wa, wa, wa, wine, wine, mutterings.............

"denying the one true gospel has always been proclaimed to mankind"-nasty clueless Naggie


=Just one piece of good news proclaimed to mankind.

No scripture testifies to that. Your church SOF does. That is what you study.

Naggie: The same "one true gospel" my Saint Judas preached!!! You go, Jude!

With no scripture to back it, as I have provided.

You made it up-the 12 had no clue that the Masrer would die, and rise again, per the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, and yet they werer preaching "ther gospel of the kingdom," the good news of the coming kingdom of heaven upon the earth, for 3 years.


Have a seat-you are embarrassing yourself. Stay on the mat.

Luke records three instances of Jesus proclaiming His death, burial, and resurrection; Luke 18 being the last.

Jesus did not quote Paul, but He did preach the gospel.

Just because the Holy Spirit had not yet opened the minds of the Apostles/Disciples to the gospel, does not negate the fact that it was preached . . . and this has always been true down through time.

God determines who will believe His gospel, and when. Isaiah 6:9-10, but grace has been shown by God since the times in the garden.

You are convoluting two subjects with your erroneous and silly MAD beliefs . . .
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Luke records three instances of Jesus proclaiming His death, burial, and resurrection; Luke 18 being the last.

Jesus did not quote Paul, but He did preach the gospel.

Just because the Holy Spirit had not yet opened the minds of the Apostles/Disciples to the gospel, does not negate the fact that it was preached . . . and this has always been true down through time.

God determines who will believe His gospel, and when. Isaiah 6:9-10, but grace has been shown by God since the times in the garden.

You are convoluting two subjects with your erroneous and silly MAD beliefs . . .

"Jesus proclaiming His death, burial, and resurrection"-you

Wicked deception, for all to view. No, he told them late in His ministry, you wicked deceiver, of the impending ocurrence, the facts, and the parallel passages to the Mark passages, but thay had no clue:

1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV "gospel"

Death
Burial
Resurrection

Survey the book...

1.The 12 did not know of the impending dbr-it was hid from them, until later in the Lord's ministry-and yet, prior to them knowing, they were preaching "the gospel of the kingdom:"


"For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him." Mark 9:31-32 KJV

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Luke 18:31-34 KJV

"For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead." John 20:9 KJV


You lied again, for all of TOL to witness, to defend your satanic Clavinism.


2. Peter tried to prevent the Lord Jesus Christ's death, and His death was a key component of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV:

"From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee" Mt. 16:21-22 KJV

Read it-from that time forth....began to shew" them.

Peter was clueless that He would die.

"And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him." Mark 8:31-32 KJV


3. Even after the Lord's death, burial, and resurrection, the 12 initially did not believe it:

"And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted." Mt. 28:17 KJV

"And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen." Mark 16:11 KJV

"And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest. It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles. And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not." Luke 24:9-11 KJV

" And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?" Luke 24:41 KJV

Therefore, they were not preaching the dbr, "the gospel" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, as a basis of justification, at least prior to its occurrence, but they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore, they are not the same "the" gospels, "good news." This "argument" that there is just one "the gospel," just one piece of good news, self-destructs, "commits suicide". There is plenty of "good news"(and bad news) in the book-the context tells us what "good news"/gospel is in view.


"Just because the Holy Spirit had not yet opened the minds of the Apostles/Disciples to the gospel, does not negate the fact that it was preached . . . and this has always been true down through time.
"-nasty

Made up-you were given chapter, and verse, clueless one, that they were not preaching 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV. And you assert, on record, that "it" was preached by your saint Judas. That is satanic.

"God determines who will believe His gospel, and when. Isaiah 6:9-10, but grace has been shown by God since the times in the garden."-nasty

That says NADA, and is irrelevant . The issue is not " who will believe His gospel," as your satanic Calvism "teaches," but whether 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV was preached prior to its occurrence, by the 12, and others-the content of faith does change.


You're not in my league. Sit down, Clavinist.
 
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