ECT Why shouldn't I convert from Evangelical Protestant to Catholic?

[RichRock]

You need salvation

Period

I shouldn't join the Catholic Church because I need salvation?

Interesting response.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

So, why shouldn't I convert to the Catholic Church?

For these reasons and more:

The Historical Church

Swimming the Tiber a Mistake

Spoiler

Over thirty years ago while a Romanist, I used to believe:Creation "participates in Being," which is God. Grace perfects nature. Creation per se is in need of grace.

Since then, I believe:
Humans are only analogues to God. Grace renews fallen nature. Creation per se is good and was corrupted only by sin.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Authority means God is the source through the church by her living tradition and Scripture.

Since then, I believe:
God is the source through the Scripture to the church so that the Scripture is read in and with the church but it alone is the norm for life and doctrine.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Hermeneutically, Scripture is old law (Moses) and new law (Christ).

Since then, I believe:
All Scripture contains law ("do") and gospel ("done"). I express the law-gospel dichotomy in the covenants of works (law) and grace (gospel).

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Sin is a fall from original grace and the result of the concupiscence natural to creatures. Sin created the need for more grace. The effects of sin do not prevent our cooperation with grace toward final justification.

Since then, I believe:
Sin is a free, unnatural act of willful disobedience to God's law. Sin results in depravity and inability to cooperate with grace.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Salvation is a grace given through the church enabling us to overcoming finitude and consequent sin.

Since then, I believe:
Salvation is deliverance from sin, death, and the devil.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Condign merit is wrought within sinners by the Spirit and congruent merit is imputed graciously to sinners in view of their best efforts.

Since then, I believe:
The condign merit of Christ's obedience is imputed to sinners who have no intrinsic merits. There is no congruent merit.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Grace is a gift from the Holy Spirit, by which "he shares his divine life," that is infused into sinners sanctifying them.

Since then, I believe:
Grace is free, unmerited or demerited divine favor toward sinners.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Justification is the process of being made intrinsically righteous through grace and cooperation with grace, occurring in two stages, initial and final. Initial justification is received at baptism. Final justification recognizes intrinsic righteousness which is the result of grace and cooperation with grace and occurs at the judgment.

Since then, I believe:
Justification is a definitive divine declaration of forgiveness of sins and righteousness on the basis of Christ's righteous obedience and death imputed to sinners. There is no distinction between initial and final justification.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Faith is a measure of sanctity, one of three virtues (the others being hope and love) created within the righteous. With hope and love it is gradually infused into the soul and exists partially in this life as the sinner cooperates with grace.

Since then, I believe:
Faith is a grace whereby sinners are granted true knowledge of and trust in Christ the Savior, and are righteous, accepted, and saved by God for Christ's sake. Faith's virtue is not intrinsic but rests in Christ and his alien righteousness. Faith is the only instrument of justification.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Good works are necessary for justification.

Since then, I believe:
Good works are logically and morally necessary as fruit and evidence of justification, but not as the ground or instrument of justification.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Free will is essential to salvation. Humans cannot be righteous without the exercise of free will in cooperation with grace. It is presumptuous to say with certainty that one is elect.

Since then, I believe:
God foreknows and predestines everything. In Christ, the elect are chosen for salvation but the reprobate are passed over. The grace of election is irresistible and produces true faith that trusts God's promises in Christ.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Baptism provides initial justification and regeneration. By its act, grace necessarily operates on the sinner.

Since then, I believe:
Baptism is a sacrament (sign and seal) of inclusion in the covenant of grace whereby God promises salvation to those who believe.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
As to the Lord's Supper, by "transubstantiation" the elements become the body and blood of Christ. The
transubstantiated victim is ritually and memorially sacrificed to turn away divine wrath for sin.

Since then, I believe:
As to the Lord's Supper, Christ is bodily at the right hand of the Father but, by the work of the Holy Spirit, truly and really communicates himself to believers through the Supper so that they receive the body and blood of Christ through faith.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Mary was redeemed at her sinless (immaculate) conception, was without sin and was assumed bodily, without death, into heaven where she reigns as queen of heaven, a recipient of prayer and adoration, interceding on behalf of believers.

Since then, I believe:
Mary was blessed above all women, bore the God-Man in her womb, but was not conceived immaculately, nor assumed into heaven at death. Christ is our only priest and Mediator.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
The saints are intermediaries whose righteousness is stored in a treasury of merit accessible to sinners through the church and the proper recipients of prayer.

Since then, I believe:
The saints are fellow believers and valuable examples but neither intermediaries nor contributors to a treasury of merit.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
At death, the elect enter a state of purification (purgatory) before glorification. Therefore, prayers on their behalf are proper.

Since then, I believe:
At death, believers go to be with their Savior. Glorification is immediate, but they with believers and unbelievers on earth await the resurrection and judgment.

The Roman Catholic Treadmill

Study these things carefully before you make any decisions.

AMR

 

[CabinetMaker]

Judging by your response...you?

So you have no meaningful answer, just a cutesy quip. All this tells me is that you have have some vague feeling that the protestant church is lacking something, though you really have no idea what, and that you find the weight of the history of the Catholic church appealing.

Fine thanks. You should try it.

Born and raised Catholic so I did try it. It is a large part of the reason I am no longer Catholic.

 

[fishrovmen]

I don't know much about the Catholic church, but I grew up in a Lutheran church.I did not like the repetition of the liturgical format, it is just too easy to say things from memory without thinking about what your actually saying or confessing.The structure of the church was not biblical, the pastor basically had the final say, there was no eldership. The synod was studying homosexuality and looking into ordination of homosexual clergy. There was no real Bible study, more like study of worldly topics and current world events. Some books of the Bible were not covered at all in worship "readings" and some books were questioned as to their being truly inspired and innerent, I could go on and on.
The main thing for me leaving was the teaching of infant baptismal regeneration; I would not confess that every infant baptised was automatically "born of God".

 

[RichRock]

... All this tells me is that you have have some vague feeling that the protestant church is lacking something, though you really have no idea what, and that you find the weight of the history of the Catholic church appealing.

Wow, what an interpretation. I can see why there are 40, 000 denominations now.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Wow, what an interpretation. I can see why there are 40, 000 denominations now.

And still nothing. What do you find shallow with the Protestant faith?

 

[Nick M]

The more I researched the origin of the bible and the history of my faith, the more I discovered the Catholic Church....So, why shouldn't I convert to the Catholic Church?

The contents of the Holy Bible, that is why.

 

[RichRock]

Apart from anti Catholic rhetoric and obscenely biased protestant views I have not in 4 pages of this thread had a single good reason presented as to why I should not convert to the Catholic Church.

FACTS and less rhetoric please.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

For these reasons and more:

The Historical Church

Swimming the Tiber a Mistake

Spoiler

Over thirty years ago while a Romanist, I used to believe:
Creation "participates in Being," which is God. Grace perfects nature. Creation per se is in need of grace.

Since then, I believe:
Humans are only analogues to God. Grace renews fallen nature. Creation per se is good and was corrupted only by sin.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Authority means God is the source through the church by her living tradition and Scripture.

Since then, I believe:
God is the source through the Scripture to the church so that the Scripture is read in and with the church but it alone is the norm for life and doctrine.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Hermeneutically, Scripture is old law (Moses) and new law (Christ).

Since then, I believe:
All Scripture contains law ("do") and gospel ("done"). I express the law-gospel dichotomy in the covenants of works (law) and grace (gospel).

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Sin is a fall from original grace and the result of the concupiscence natural to creatures. Sin created the need for more grace. The effects of sin do not prevent our cooperation with grace toward final justification.

Since then, I believe:
Sin is a free, unnatural act of willful disobedience to God's law. Sin results in depravity and inability to cooperate with grace.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Salvation is a grace given through the church enabling us to overcoming finitude and consequent sin.

Since then, I believe:
Salvation is deliverance from sin, death, and the devil.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Condign merit is wrought within sinners by the Spirit and congruent merit is imputed graciously to sinners in view of their best efforts.

Since then, I believe:
The condign merit of Christ's obedience is imputed to sinners who have no intrinsic merits. There is no congruent merit.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Grace is a gift from the Holy Spirit, by which "he shares his divine life," that is infused into sinners sanctifying them.

Since then, I believe:
Grace is free, unmerited or demerited divine favor toward sinners.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Justification is the process of being made intrinsically righteous through grace and cooperation with grace, occurring in two stages, initial and final. Initial justification is received at baptism. Final justification recognizes intrinsic righteousness which is the result of grace and cooperation with grace and occurs at the judgment.

Since then, I believe:
Justification is a definitive divine declaration of forgiveness of sins and righteousness on the basis of Christ's righteous obedience and death imputed to sinners. There is no distinction between initial and final justification.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Faith is a measure of sanctity, one of three virtues (the others being hope and love) created within the righteous. With hope and love it is gradually infused into the soul and exists partially in this life as the sinner cooperates with grace.

Since then, I believe:
Faith is a grace whereby sinners are granted true knowledge of and trust in Christ the Savior, and are righteous, accepted, and saved by God for Christ's sake. Faith's virtue is not intrinsic but rests in Christ and his alien righteousness. Faith is the only instrument of justification.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Good works are necessary for justification.

Since then, I believe:
Good works are logically and morally necessary as fruit and evidence of justification, but not as the ground or instrument of justification.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Free will is essential to salvation. Humans cannot be righteous without the exercise of free will in cooperation with grace. It is presumptuous to say with certainty that one is elect.

Since then, I believe:
God foreknows and predestines everything. In Christ, the elect are chosen for salvation but the reprobate are passed over. The grace of election is irresistible and produces true faith that trusts God's promises in Christ.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Baptism provides initial justification and regeneration. By its act, grace necessarily operates on the sinner.

Since then, I believe:
Baptism is a sacrament (sign and seal) of inclusion in the covenant of grace whereby God promises salvation to those who believe.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
As to the Lord's Supper, by "transubstantiation" the elements become the body and blood of Christ. The
transubstantiated victim is ritually and memorially sacrificed to turn away divine wrath for sin.

Since then, I believe:
As to the Lord's Supper, Christ is bodily at the right hand of the Father but, by the work of the Holy Spirit, truly and really communicates himself to believers through the Supper so that they receive the body and blood of Christ through faith.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
Mary was redeemed at her sinless (immaculate) conception, was without sin and was assumed bodily, without death, into heaven where she reigns as queen of heaven, a recipient of prayer and adoration, interceding on behalf of believers.

Since then, I believe:
Mary was blessed above all women, bore the God-Man in her womb, but was not conceived immaculately, nor assumed into heaven at death. Christ is our only priest and Mediator.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
The saints are intermediaries whose righteousness is stored in a treasury of merit accessible to sinners through the church and the proper recipients of prayer.

Since then, I believe:
The saints are fellow believers and valuable examples but neither intermediaries nor contributors to a treasury of merit.

Over thirty years ago, I used to believe:
At death, the elect enter a state of purification (purgatory) before glorification. Therefore, prayers on their behalf are proper.

Since then, I believe:
At death, believers go to be with their Savior. Glorification is immediate, but they with believers and unbelievers on earth await the resurrection and judgment.

The Roman Catholic Treadmill

Study these things carefully before you make any decisions.

AMR

Apart from anti Catholic rhetoric and obscenely biased protestant views I have not in 4 pages of this thread had a single good reason presented as to why I should not convert to the Catholic Church.

FACTS and less rhetoric please.

Sigh. For such a decision one would think that careful study would be in order. The materials I provided required significant personal study. Will you devote the time to this or have you already made up your mind and are just seeking validation from the hoi polloi?

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Wow, what an interpretation. I can see why there are 40, 000 denominations now.

Error!

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2984353#post2984353

More to add to your research:
http://vintage.aomin.org/Roman.html

AMR

 

[RichRock]

Sigh. For such a decision one would think that careful study would be in order. The materials I provided required significant personal study. Will you devote the time to this or have you already made up your mind and are just seeking validation from the hoi polloi?

AMR

Presumption. I have studied for years. Thankyou for your materials but please paste a synopsis on the thread.

 

[RichRock]

Error!

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2984353&posted=1#post2984353

More to add to your research:
http://vintage.aomin.org/Roman.html

AMR

Alpha and Omega ministries? Are you serious? I won't be looking at any more of your links. If you have something to say then write it as a post...not a link please.

You aren't really convincing me why I should remain a protestant.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

You aren't really convincing me why I should remain a protestant.

If you knew more about me your statement would seem even more odd.

You obviously have no sincere interest in thinking and studying about this decision of yours and are just posting here on this topic to stir the pot. I guess you and Rome deserve one another then.

You have my resources and a mind to separate wheat from chaff therein as you are so inclined. The matter now is in your own hands. After you are done feeding your ego herein I have lifted up prayers that in your private time, when no one is watching, you will avail yourself of the resources provided and study them carefully. As it stands now with me, your fifteen minutes are up. Carry on.

AMR

 

[chrysostom]

Alpha and Omega ministries? Are you serious? I won't be looking at any more of your links. If you have something to say then write it as a post...not a link please.

You aren't really convincing me why I should remain a protestant.

amr is a former papist
so
what you are doing is not going to make his day

 

[GuySmiley]

Alpha and Omega ministries? Are you serious? I won't be looking at any more of your links. If you have something to say then write it as a post...not a link please.

You aren't really convincing me why I should remain a protestant.

You aren't really honest about your purpose in this thread. You are shown information and just say you've studied for years and wont read them. This same conversation could've been done honestly. Geez that'll be like 20 laps around the rosary.

 

[RichRock]

amr is a former papist
so
what you are doing is not going to make his day

Ahh...that makes sense now. Thanks for the heads up

 

[RichRock]

Off to my 'introduction to the Catholic faith' evening at the Cathedral here in the sunny UK. Wonder*if*they will be as friendly as all of you on here have been?! God bless you...and please...try not to burn the house down while I'm gone for a couple of hours will ya?

 

[GuySmiley]

Off to my 'introduction to the Catholic faith' evening at the Cathedral here in the sunny UK. Wonder*if*they will be as friendly as all of you on here have been?! God bless you...and please...try not to burn the house down while I'm gone for a couple of hours will ya?

:thumb: Good luck! Remember, if God is in a bad mood tonight when you are praying, Mary's got your back!

 

[CabinetMaker]

Apart from anti Catholic rhetoric and obscenely biased protestant views I have not in 4 pages of this thread had a single good reason presented as to why I should not convert to the Catholic Church.

FACTS and less rhetoric please.

I have asked you two direct questions and all you offered were a couple of glib responses and never addressed the question I asked. I offered no rhetoric of any kind, I was merely asking you about your reasoning. Why are you so reluctant to discuss your real reasons for wanting to become Catholic?

 

[Heterodoxical]

I have been Evangelical Protestant most of my life, even spending some time living in a fulltime religious community.

The more I researched the origin of the bible and the history of my faith, the more I discovered the Catholic Church.

I am taking steps towards joining the Catholic Church and my question is this....'Why shouldn't I?'

I am not asking because I doubt my journey, I am asking because I haven't come across a good enough reason NOT to join.

Each side, for and against may debate, I look forward to reading each side's responses.

So, why shouldn't I convert to the Catholic Church?

I have some issues with Rome. I have some issues with Evangelicals. If I had to choose from one or the other, I'd lean to Rome. Most evangelical churches I have experienced are way to hateful, or snotty for me to commune with God in.