Why can’t everyone have a chance to be drawn

[Lowly one]

People always say God wishes none shall parish. Therr cannot be both. If salvation is only through grace of God choosing whom He allows to be drawn to Him then he is not giving everyone that he created a chance. How can people see that and see that as perfect loving ness toward all the humans that he created and puts pressure on to do all these things? But so many verses say He does as he pleases. I wish I would have been created in a way that my brain was simple and did not analyze and race cause its the worst type of mental wiring for faith. But faith is given by God anyways as a gift to those he chooses. And I found time and again specific words that showed exclusivity that Gid himself chose as who gets saved. As in those appointed or chosen believed as in the others tho they heard the word were not able to believe cause they had not been chosen to believe with the gift of Gid as faith.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him,

ohn 6:39
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.

John 6:65
Then Jesus said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him."

Acts 13:48
and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed

 

[Bob Carabbio]

People always say God wishes none shall parish. Therr cannot be both. If salvation is only through grace of God choosing whom He allows to be drawn to Him then he is not giving everyone that he created a chance.

Who says that He doesn't give everybody a chance (Besides Calvinists, of course, who limit the Atonement to the "Elect", who are the only ones called. and who MUST respond, since God's "grace" is irresistable).

The bottom line is that ONLY UNDER CONVICTION OF SIN, and of judgement can a person really Repent and surrender to God, and that Holy Spirit CONVICTION is the source of the FAITH necessary to accept Jesus' SIN OFFERING for cleansing and being "Born Again" of the Spirit.

But it's really only the Reformed (Calvinist) Paradigm that has created a genre of people that are NEVER called, were born to BURN, and have no choice in the matter. I was given many "Chances", and turned 'em ALL down - until the last one, when I finally broke, and surrendered in FAITH.

 

[Lowly one]

That’s your story. People can’t just go by their story. There’s billions around the world that never even know what conviction means.

Gid says he has mercy and hardens who he wants and no one can do nothing. Everyone wants mercy and don’t turn that down but being hardened against your will unto spiritual death no one who understands wants that. That’s against someone’s will

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Why can’t everyone have a chance to be drawn

Lowly one, the Lord Jesus said:

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself" (Jn.12:32).​

 

[Lowly one]

That word is not all the world but those throughout the workd since he care from all tribes and tongues that Gid has given him. Just like when he says All those father has given me will come to me and that Jesus doesn’t pray for the world but only those God gave him. That is exclusive from everyone in the world. In Joel 2 it says God will pour out spirit on ALL flesh and they will dream dreams and visions. That is happening now and past years where people from all over the world have been given dreams and visions of sooo many prophetic things about the endtime period that is right around the corner and in birth pangs right now and 90% of the church does not know. But they are very confident about whatever they believe. My point is ALL Christians are not getting dreams and visions. Even if u somehow say that was from the past tho the chapter is about endtime prophecy then everyone in the whole world at that last time would have had dreams and visions from Gid himself. That’s gonna change entire world if ALL men had that happen.

 

[Lowly one]

Have ALL peoples been drawn to Him? Billions don’t know about Jesus. Or all nations would have Christianity as their religion. Some from each nation have been drawn individually tho.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Have ALL peoples been drawn to Him? Billions don’t know about Jesus. Or all nations would have Christianity as their religion. Some from each nation have been drawn individually tho.

When John wrote what he did at John 12:32 Paul had already taken the gospel of grace to all the known world (Col.1:4-6). That gospel speaks of things which are "freely" given to all who believe. And all people are drawn to the idea of something that is freely given. The gospel comes in power and in the Holy Spirit (1 Thess.1:5) and only those who resist the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51) do not believe the gospel.

 

[Lowly one]

does everyone in existence at least know of Jesus or met him? Cause that’s what ur saying by ALL men being drawn to him. So they were drawn to him but accepted or turned down so every person existence would at least know about him. That clearly has not happened or the world would be totally different. Did “ALL” people of the world have dreams and visions like in Joel 2? So the word ALL in the Bible is not being translated or interpreted right.

U sayin Paul went to the entire world? One prophecy is that Jesus will come when the gospel will go around the whole world and he hasn’t came back yet.


I heard the gospel hundreds of times and never felt the Holy Spirit In “power” but yet I sure wanted to be saved and responded best I knew how.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

does everyone in existence at least know of Jesus or met him? Cause that’s what ur saying by ALL men being drawn to him.

Do you or do you not believe what the Lord Jesus said here?:

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself" (Jn.12:32).​

 

[Lowly one]

I believe that means all people groups. That there will be saved people from all those groups. He’s no respecter of persons that some from all walks of life He will save. But not every single individual has felt the drawing of God. I feel that’s dishonest reasoning cause every human would have a story they felt Jesus draw them. I’ve listened to prob more testimonies trying to understand God abd it’s knowable when people are drawn by the spirit of God. Wouldn’t people know they were being drawn?

 

[beloved57]

LO

People always say God wishes none shall parish. Therr cannot be both. If salvation is only through grace of God choosing whom He allows to be drawn to Him then he is not giving everyone that he created a chance.

God is not willing that any of His Chosen/Elect dont perish and not one of them will, He will grant each one of them repentance unto life !

 

[beloved57]

Do you or do you not believe what the Lord Jesus said here?:

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself" (Jn.12:32).​

Yes, all the elect/sheep !

 

[beloved57]

JS

The gospel comes in power and in the Holy Spirit (1 Thess.1:5) and only those who resist the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51) do not believe the gospel.

It does to the elect 1 Thess 1:4-5

^{4 [/SUP]knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. 5 For our gospel came not unto you[the elect] in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake}

 

[musterion]

No one is "drawn" today. All are called by the saving gospel, yes, but not irresistibly so since they can and do refuse. But definitely not "drawn."

 

[God's Truth]

No one is "drawn" today. All are called by the saving gospel, yes, but not irresistibly so since they can and do refuse. But definitely not "drawn."

We are drawn even today, but not in the Calvinist way.

We are drawn to the hope because of the Word of God --telling us we are no longer excluded Gentiles, no longer excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, no longer are we without HOPE and without God in the world, see Ephesians 2:12.

See Titus 1:2; and, 3:7. We have HOPE of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time.

God put eternal life in our heart. Ecclesiastes 3:11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

We long for an immortal physical body, we desire, we hope for the redemption of our bodies. For in this HOPE we turn to God and are saved. See Romans 8:23-25.

Through Jesus, we believe in God, because God raised Jesus from the dead and glorified him--So our FAITH and HOPE are in God. Read 1 Peter 1:21. We too want eternal life.

We DRAW near to God because of a better HOPE given us than that of the law; we hope in the perfection we receive through Jesus. See Hebrews 7:18, 19.

The powerful message of Jesus dying on the cross for us draws us, because there is no greater love.

John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

 

[Lowly one]

How do you know people are not drawn? Like it stopped. You may be in your bubbles at churches where you worship the bible as if that’s a relationship. The Bible words haven’t changed. Listen to “precious testimonies” on YouTube or just type in testimonies and tell me God did come to them drawing them with power and the Holy Spirit. A spiritual force of God came to them. They didn’t come by hearing a preacher and willing themself So then, it does not depend on man’s will or effort, but on God’s mercy. who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.

 

[musterion]

How do you know people are not drawn? Like it stopped. You may be in your bubbles at churches where you worship the bible as if that’s a relationship. The Bible words haven’t changed. Listen to “precious testimonies” on YouTube or just type in testimonies and tell me God did come to them drawing them with power and the Holy Spirit. A spiritual force of God came to them. They didn’t come by hearing a preacher and willing themself So then, it does not depend on man’s will or effort, but on God’s mercy. who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.

What is the Gospel?

 

[Lowly one]

That Jesus came for those that God chose. If it was for all then words of exclusivity would not be used. And those verses with ALL does not mean ALL I shown in another thread. They are not specific enough from Greek to English and it has caused false teaching because of the KJV is not close to perfect.

it is very clear in this passage

5Even so then at this present time also there is a REMNANT according to the ELECTION OF GRACE. 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. So this is the situation Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have—the ones God has chosen—but the hearts of the rest were hardened.

 

[nikolai_42]

That Jesus came for those that God chose. If it was for all then words of exclusivity would not be used. And those verses with ALL does not mean ALL I shown in another thread. They are not specific enough from Greek to English and it has caused false teaching because of the KJV is not close to perfect.

it is very clear in this passage

5Even so then at this present time also there is a REMNANT according to the ELECTION OF GRACE. 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. So this is the situation Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have—the ones God has chosen—but the hearts of the rest were hardened.

If this is a matter of your personal assurance, I wouldn't be worried about whether God draws all or not. If you are being drawn, you will have a sense of your need of salvation. If you are not, you won't care - and will walk away. That's what happened in John 6 - many sought after Jesus because of what He could do for them (feed them, be a king for them - replacing Rome etc...) but the bottom line was the faithful stayed with Him because He had the words of eternal life (John 6:68). If you are convinced of that - if you know that there is salvation in no other and are convinced of it - then follow Him. Take up your cross daily and follow Him. It's that simple. He will do the work that is needed in you. Satan lies, but Jesus said this about being drawn :

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:37

Jesus won't tell you not to come - but just like the disciples of the days of His earthly ministry, there is not going to be a provision for your flesh. All may come to Him - but on His terms only. Most don't want that (and, truthfully speaking, it seems like none want that without being drawn). Note that all the disciples that didn't stay with Him walked away on their own - Jesus didn't tell them to leave.

 

[Lowly one]

I appreciate that encouragement Nikolai. I can’t say I been drawn other than I was born into baptist and taught knowledge. I wanted Gid for many things all those you mentioned. Things hit bottom and I really pursued God wanting Him more for all those things. Including the part about eternal life and changes in heart. My flesh doesn’t but my will does. My heart is hard from all the pain and also it shutdown as a mechanism to protect itself cause this affliction is unlike normal by far. I ask for soft heart. I realize I may not get what I need to be healed. But to have a spiritual relationship with Jesus even if your body is ruined and tortured, you still need your brain to function. To have no dysfunctions in brain if you want to renew your mind, work on your heart and sin inside. Can’t have nonstop intrusive thoughts disrupting you from building on any Rock. With heavy metal poisoning mercury and copper literally poisoning the brain and organs, you are in total mental and soul illness. A expert who had this says you can do thirty years of therapy and get no where. You can’t heal. You try to forgive but there’s no release no freedom. Or let go and trust there’s no release the panic in mind and body is still there flooding intrusively along with all other intrusive feelings shame guilt rejection frustration. You fight one feeling or thought another bad replaces. Never ending. Won’t even let you focu on one thing. If these things are true what is a person to hope or do spiritually?