ECT True or False?: The Spiritual Dead Cannot Contribute to Receiving Spiritual Life

[Jerry Shugart]

Calvinist R. C. Sproul wrote the following about people who are spiritually dead as a result of sin:

"To quicken a person who is spiritually dead is something that only God can do. A corpse cannot revive himself. It cannot even assist in the effort. It can only respond after receiving new life.

John Piper, another well known Calvinist, practically mirrors Sproul's teaching:

"You came into this world dead. Not sort of 'hard of hearing' towards the gospel, not simply crippled in good works, not struggling to keep your head above the waters of sin. You were dead: spiritually lifeless and unmoving. Everything that a dead corpse can contribute to becoming alive, you could do, spiritually, to believe in Christ. Nothing. Dead means dead (Ephesians 2:1-3)."

Is it true that those who are spiritually dead cannot assist in an effort to receive new life?

I say that those who are spiritually dead can contribute to becoming alive.

Comments?

 

[Bradley D]

I believe if one hits bottom (between a rock and a hard place) if they reach out to God they can be saved. God gave me a chance when I nearly died of alcoholism. I was sinner and God gave me a chance. I took it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I believe if one hits bottom (between a rock and a hard place) if they reach out to God they can be saved. God gave me a chance when I nearly died of alcoholism. I was sinner and God gave me a chance. I took it.

In what way did you reach out to God, Bradley?

 

[fishrovmen]

Jerry, in what way could/would they contribute? what do they have to offer?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, in what way could/would they contribute? what do they have to offer?

fishrovmen, one part of a spiritually dead person that remains alive is his conscience (see Romans 2:14-15). When a spiritually dead person hears that that Christ died for their sins then his conscience affirms that he is a sinner and in need of a Savior. In the following verse Paul speaks about preaching the gospel in such a way that "everyman's conscience" bears witness that it is true:

"But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God" (2 Cor.4:2).

Albert Barnes wrote, "the consciences of people are on the side of truth, and the gospel may be so preached as to enlist their consciences in its favor. Conscience prompts to do right, and condemns us if we do wrong. It can never be made to approve of wrong, never to give a man peace if he does that which he knows to be evil... They approve of it as a just, pure, holy, and reasonable system; as in accordance with what they feel to be right; as recommending that which ought to be done, and forbidding that which ought not to be done."

In his commentary on this verse John Calvin wrote that "He [Paul] claims to himself this praise--that he had proclaimed the pure doctrine of the gospel in simplicity and without disguise, and has the consciences of all as witnesses of this in the sight of God."

In The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges we read that "The individual conscience is, and always must be, the ultimate tribunal to which all teaching must appeal, and St Paul assumes that in it there resides a faculty of appreciating and acknowledging truth."

 

[fishrovmen]

fishrovmen, one part of a spiritually dead person that remains alive is his conscience (see Romans 2:14-15). When a spiritually dead person hears that that Christ died for their sins then his conscience affirms that he is a sinner and in need of a Savior. In the following verse Paul speaks about preaching the gospel in such a way that "everyman's conscience" bears witness that it is true:

"But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God" (2 Cor.4:2).

Albert Barnes wrote, "the consciences of people are on the side of truth, and the gospel may be so preached as to enlist their consciences in its favor. Conscience prompts to do right, and condemns us if we do wrong. It can never be made to approve of wrong, never to give a man peace if he does that which he knows to be evil... They approve of it as a just, pure, holy, and reasonable system; as in accordance with what they feel to be right; as recommending that which ought to be done, and forbidding that which ought not to be done."

In his commentary on this verse John Calvin wrote that "He [Paul] claims to himself this praise--that he had proclaimed the pure doctrine of the gospel in simplicity and without disguise, and has the consciences of all as witnesses of this in the sight of God."

In The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges we read that "The individual conscience is, and always must be, the ultimate tribunal to which all teaching must appeal, and St Paul assumes that in it there resides a faculty of appreciating and acknowledging truth."

So what does having a conscience contribute to receive spiritual life?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So what does having a conscience contribute to receive spiritual life?

A person who is spiritually dead must first be aware that he is a sinner and his conscience bears witness that he is a sinner. Next, we read that the gospel comes in power and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance:

"For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake" (1 Thess.1:4-5).​

The Lord Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit comes "He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment" (Jn.16:8).

Therefore, we can understand that when unsaved people are told that they are sinners and Christ died for his sins that those words work together with the Holy Spirit to convict them of their sinfulness and their need of a Savior.

Sir Robert Anderson wrote "Faith comes - not by prayer, for there can be no true prayer without it; nor yet by any work of the Spirit in the soul, apart from the message which He brings - faith comes by hearing, and it is by the hearing of faith that the Spirit is received."

Anderson also wrote the following:

"To weigh the evidences and embrace Christianity, as the true religion, is the part of a fair and prudent man; but salvation is God's work altogether. The blessing is not for the apt scholar, but for the outcast and lost. It is not for the clear head, but for the contrite heart. Not for the clever reasoner, but for the self-judged and guilty, not for logicians, but for sinners; not for the wise and prudent, but for babes."

Besides that, the Lord Jesus said that His words are spirit and they are life:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

Only those who resist the Holy Spirit will not be quickened by the Holy Spirit:

"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye" (Acts 7":51).​

 

[fishrovmen]

So far we have all external things mentioned such as gospel, Holy Spirit, Christ's death, faith and Christs' words.
The only inherent quality that you mentioned was conscience, but no explanation as to how the conscience supplied to all the external elements what was necessary for spiritual life.
Is there more?

 

[Bradley D]

In what way did you reach out to God, Bradley?

What brought me to God was near death from heart failure caused by alcoholism. I woke one night and my heart was beating very hard. As I was drifting back to sleep when an inner voice told me "if you go back to sleep you will not wake up." I got up and was pacing back and forth in my Navy barracks room. I was afraid to leave the room. That voice came again and told me "get to a hospital now." I went to the barracks office and requested a ride to the ER. I was admiitted and spent 11 days in the mental/detox ward. I turned 40 years old in the the ward. I gave my life to God and never drank again. I believe many people get the chance to be saved by hitting rock bottom. They have to reach out and do what God tells them.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So far we have all external things mentioned such as gospel, Holy Spirit, Christ's death, faith and Christs' words.
The only inherent quality that you mentioned was conscience, but no explanation as to how the conscience supplied to all the external elements what was necessary for spiritual life.
Is there more?

For anyone to believe the gospel that "Christ died for our sins" it is absolutely essential for those who are spiritually dead to admit that they are sinners. And it is a person's conscience which provides that proof.

Do you think that a spiritually dead person can actually believe the gospel that "Christ died for our sins" if they deny that they are sinners?

Of course not, so a person's "conscience" plays an integral part in regard to a spiritually dead person believing the gospel.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What brought me to God was near death from heart failure caused by alcoholism. I woke one night and my heart was beating very hard. As I was drifting back to sleep when an inner voice told me "if you go back to sleep you will not wake up." I got up and was pacing back and forth in my Navy barracks room. I was afraid to leave the room. That voice came again and told me "get to a hospital now." I went to the barracks office and requested a ride to the ER. I was admiitted and spent 11 days in the mental/detox ward. I turned 40 years old in the the ward. I gave my life to God and never drank again. I believe many people get the chance to be saved by hitting rock bottom. They have to reach out and do what God tells them.

What a story!

I too am an alcoholic. I hit rock bottom and ended up at Alcoholics Anonymous. Before that I didn't want God in my life but at AA I was told to admit that there is a higher power. So I did that but it wasn't until I heard a clear explanation of the gospel of God's grace that I was saved.

I believe that the Scriptures teach that spiritual life comes as a result of believing the gospel so I don't know what to say about your experience of hearing a voice which saved your life. At what point of time did you hear and believe the gospel, Bradley?

 

[fishrovmen]

Of course not, so a person's "conscience" plays an integral part in regard to a spiritually dead person believing the gospel.

But the title of this thread is not about the spiritually dead believing the gospel, but rather the spiritually dead contributing to receive spiritual life.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

But the title of this thread is not about the spiritually dead believing the gospel, but rather the spiritually dead contributing to receive spiritual life.

The conscience contributes to receiving spiritual life because the conscience bears witness that a spiritually dead person is a sinner. And no one will believe the gospel that states that Christ died for our sins unless they acknowledge that they are sinners.

Do you think that a spiritually dead person will believe that Christ died for our sins if he doesn't think that he is a sinner?

 

[fishrovmen]

The conscience contributes to receiving spiritual life because the conscience bears witness that a spiritually dead person is a sinner. And no one will believe the gospel that states that Christ died for our sins unless they acknowledge that they are sinners.

Do you think that a spiritually dead person will believe that Christ died for our sins if he doesn't think that he is a sinner?

Doesn't everyone have a conscience? Does everyone receive spiritual life just because they have a conscience? So just having a conscience is NOT a contribution to receive spiritual life, unless you believe that everyone has spiritual life.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Doesn't everyone have a conscience? Does everyone receive spiritual life just because they have a conscience? So just having a conscience is NOT a contribution to receive spiritual life, unless you believe that everyone has spiritual life.

Here is what is said about those who are spiritually dead and do not listen to their conscience and do not receive spiritual life:

"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed" (Jn.3:18-20).​

John Calvin wrote that "no man may ascribe his 'condemnation' to Christ, he shows that every man ought to impute the blame to himself. The reason is, that unbelief is a testimony of a bad conscience; and hence it is evident that it is their own wickedness which hinders unbelievers from approaching to Christ."

Now please answer my question:

Do you think that a spiritually dead person will believe that Christ died for our sins if he doesn't think that he is a sinner?

 

[fishrovmen]

Not on his own. But what does that have to do with contributing to receive spiritual life? WHAT is contributed from the spiritual dead to receive spiritual life?

 

[Bradley D]

What a story!

I too am an alcoholic. I hit rock bottom and ended up at Alcoholics Anonymous. Before that I didn't want God in my life but at AA I was told to admit that there is a higher power. So I did that but it wasn't until I heard a clear explanation of the gospel of God's grace that I was saved.

I believe that the Scriptures teach that spiritual life comes as a result of believing the gospel so I don't know what to say about your experience of hearing a voice which saved your life. At what point of time did you hear and believe the gospel, Bradley?

I believed in the God of the Bible. But, I was expecting things to go my way. When they did not. I would turn alcohol again. The 12 Steps helped me get a good connection with the God of my understanding (Bible). I learned I was to do His Will for me.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I believed in the God of the Bible. But, I was expecting things to go my way. When they did not. I would turn alcohol again. The 12 Steps helped me get a good connection with the God of my understanding (Bible). I learned I was to do His Will for me.

When did you first hear and believe the gospel of your salvation, Bradley? Or do you think you received spiritual life apart from hearing and believing the gospel?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I asked you:

Do you think that a spiritually dead person will believe that Christ died for our sins if he doesn't think that he is a sinner?

Not on his own.

So you think that a spiritual dead person cannot understand that he is a sinner based on what his conscience tells him. I knew that I was a sinner even before I heard the gospel. What about you?

 

[fishrovmen]

I asked you:

Do you think that a spiritually dead person will believe that Christ died for our sins if he doesn't think that he is a sinner?



So you think that a spiritual dead person cannot understand that he is a sinner based on what his conscience tells him. I knew that I was a sinner even before I heard the gospel. What about you?

What I "knew" in my head not only did NOT in anyway contribute to spiritual life, it repelled me AWAY because my heart was dead. My heart would not agree with what my head "knew".
i have seen and talked to many people who actually WANT to be saved and say they CAN'T proving that even a pricked conscience does nothing to contribute to spiritual life, death is just that, death. When I myself was made alive from spiritual death I frequented an atheistic online forum such as this where several former pastors said that they could no longer "believe" and several said that they tried and just can't.
so, what is missing is just what the bible tells us is missing.
And that one external missing thing is the ONLY one thing that the bible tells us is needed, which in itself has everything necessary to begin, sustain and forever keep a person spiritually alive.
These are not my opinion, but biblical truths.