ECT The Sin Unto Death

nikolai_42

nikolai_42

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What is the sin unto death? More pertinently, how would you explain this passage :

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
I John 5:16-17

I have my own thoughts about it, but want to interact with people about it. I don't know that I have a final conclusion...yet....
 
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nikolai_42 said:
What is the sin unto death? More pertinently, how would you explain this passage :

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
I John 5:16-17

I have my own thoughts about it, but want to interact with people about it. I don't know that I have a final conclusion...yet....
Click to expand...

Some sins required the death penalty according to the law, others did not.

Two such sins:
Murder: death penalty
Theft: reparations; not death.​
 
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Bradley D said:
The Unpardonable Sin

"He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.…" (Matthew 12:30-32).
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How do you connect this with "the sin unto death"?
 
Bradley D

Bradley D

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"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned" (Hebrews 6:4-8).
 
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Bradley D said:
"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned" (Hebrews 6:4-8).
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Again, you are not making an argument or connecting anything.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
Some sins required the death penalty according to the law, others did not.

Two such sins:
Murder: death penalty
Theft: reparations; not death.​
Click to expand...

So if someone commits murder, you should't pray for them? God won't forgive murderers and thieves? And if that's the case, why in the world would John make the agonizingly obvious statement "There is a sin not unto death"? And why would he transition from speaking about life in a spiritual sense (explicitly up to v 13 and implied in vv 14 and 15 as related to the "life" in the previous verses) to speaking about the death sentence issued by a civil ruler - and then again transition directly back to speaking in spiritual terms of sin and its consequences?
 
JudgeRightly

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nikolai_42 said:
So if someone commits murder, you shouldn't pray for them?
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Of course you should. You should pray that the murderer recognizes his sin and humbles himself and repents before God, and that He turns himself over to the authorities so they can bring justice to him and His victims, and pray for the authorities to not falter when God says to put the murderer to death, which brings justice to the murderer and his victims.

God won't forgive murderers and thieves?
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He will, if they repent.

Which is a separate matter entirely from whether they should be punished here on the earth for their crime.
 
steko

steko

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Right Divider said:
Some sins required the death penalty according to the law, others did not.

Two such sins:
Murder: death penalty
Theft: reparations; not death.​
Click to expand...

Exactly.

I usually link this verse

Deu 21:22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:


with 1Jn 5:16.
 
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steko said:
Exactly.

I usually link this verse

Deu 21:22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:

with 1Jn 5:16.
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Those that do not understand context in scripture are bound to have problems with these things.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
JudgeRightly said:
Of course you should. You should pray that the murderer recognizes his sin and humbles himself and repents before God, and that He turns himself over to the authorities so they can bring justice to him and His victims, and pray for the authorities to not falter when God says to put the murderer to death, which brings justice to the murderer and his victims.



He will, if they repent.

Which is a separate matter entirely from whether they should be punished here on the earth for their crime.
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Aside from the fact that the context of the chapter seems to be life in Christ (spiritual life vs. spiritual death), the flipside of not praying for life for them that sin not unto death is that Jesus will give life for them that sin not unto death. So if he is saying that Jesus will give them spiritual life for a sin that is not unto (physical) death, why are they not to pray for it in the situation where they DO sin unto death?

Not only that, but this is referring to a "brother" sinning....
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
nikolai_42 said:
What is the sin unto death? More pertinently, how would you explain this passage :

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
I John 5:16-17

I have my own thoughts about it, but want to interact with people about it. I don't know that I have a final conclusion...yet....
Click to expand...

Hi and this is how I see 1 John 5:16 the SIN UNTO DEATH !

The Greek words HE SHALL ASK / AITEO are in the FUTURE TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD !!

I believe , that since it is in the FUTUREN TENSE this sin will happen to Israel during the the last half of the GREAT TRIBULATION TO Israel !!

I also believe that SIN is taking the MARK 666 !

The Greek words HE SHALL GIVE / DIDOMI is also in the FUTURE TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD !

The ACTIVE VOICE means that the action is being produced by the one TAKING the Number 666 !

There is no COMING back from that action !!

dan p
 
beloved57

beloved57

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The sin unto death I believe is apostacy from the faith Heb 10 26 39

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
The sin unto death I believe is apostacy from the faith Heb 10 26 39

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
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Hi B 57 and the EXPRESSION , ( SAVING OF THE SOUL ) is found ONLY in the KINGDOM WRITINGS , which is in accord with Israel's Kingdom PROGRAM , as found in Heb 10:39 , JAMES 1:21 and in 1 Peter 1:9 !!

Hebrews was written to the HEBREWS and NOT to the BODY OF CHRIST !!

dan p
 
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beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
DAN P said:
Hi B 57 and the EXPRESSION , ( SAVING OF THE SOUL ) is found ONLY in the KINGDOM WRITINGS , which is in accord with Israel's Kingdom PROGRAM , as found in Heb 10:39 , JAMES 1:21 and in 1 Peter 1:9 !!

dan p
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Rabbit trail!
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
Rabbit trail!
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Hi B 57 and you are pretending and like to being a BLOOTER , good for you !!!!!!!

And since you do not know what the FUTURE TENSE means , I will try to DUMB IT DOWN for you , NEXT TIME !!!!

It seems you never received the MEMO that HEBREWS is a Jewish book !!

dan p
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
DAN P said:
Hi B 57 and you are pretending and like to being a BLOOTER , good for you !!!!!!!

And since you do not know what the FUTURE TENSE means , I will try to DUMB IT DOWN for you , NEXT TIME !!!!

It seems you never received the MEMO that HEBREWS is a Jewish book !!

dan p
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More rabbit trail
 
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