ECT Do you see All, Some, None of the Spiritual Gifts in Operation Today?

Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

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Rainee asks should healing be listed as a gift to be debated on this topic?

In the sense that it is a benefit of the atonement hand in hand with forgiveness I understand her point but how are any of the benefits of the gospel to be dispensed?

Jesus dispensed them in Person by the working of the Holy Ghost, His ministry was in the supernatural gifts of word of knowledge, word of wisdom,prophecy, healing, miracles and administration.

After He ascended into heaven the Holy Spirit had no body to dispense the blessings of the gospel through. After pentecost He did and you see all the gifts and ministry of the Lord Jesus being done through the members of His body the church at Jerusalem.

The church is the assembly of God's people. Wherever Paul went and preached he set up everywhere an assembly of saved ones to operate as the body of Christ in that community. We have a rare glimpse of one of these assemblies at Corinth they are functioning and ministering in exactly the same way as the assembly did at Jerusalem and as Jesus did in Person in Galilee.

The Holy Spirit ministered through the assembly ar Corinth in the same way as He ministered at Jerusalem, of COURSE setting up an assembly among former heathens newly saved and brought into a knowledge of God for the first time was always going to be a tougher call than among the Jews, calling for special wisdom. This was the dispensation given to Paul.

But the working of the Holy Spirit through this assembly or body of Christ was the SAME. No one person in the assembly had all the gifts and ministry that Christ had, no one person is the body of Christ but we are each members of His body it is as we meet together we act as the body of Christ.

Most assemblies today meet together to listen to a one man ministry, to hear him preach a nice sermon, to sing a few hymns......where is the room for the Holy Spirit to function among the assembly? He is denied His leadership...He has been usurped.

This happened early on in the church, the church split between the "clergy" and the "laity" THAT is why the gifts ceased. The church as set up by Paul by the wisdom given Him by the Holy Spirit had changed.

The reformation was a great leap forward in doctrine only....the ministry remained the same.
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
rainee said:
I think the Bible says believers have gifts.
They do not have to be fancy gifts to serve the body I guess, but
I personally think it says or implies that Paul was irritated by speaking in tongues and would have preferred not one believer did it any more.
Can anyone show me where he is not complaining about it or talking negatively?

On the other hand I think he wanted every believer to prophesy. Every believer.

From there I could suspect that every Christian could to some extent
prophesy though it may not actually come about.
And perhaps not one can speak in tongues anymore.

However, the Word says signs and miracle will be done by the other side
and the world will follow after, right?
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I personally think it says or implies that Paul was irritated by speaking in tongues and would have preferred not one believer did it any more.
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If Paul was irritated, it was with the misuse of speaking in tongues, not speaking in tongues itself.

We can be irritated with the misuse of scripture, but we are not advocating getting rid of our Bibles? EH?

I Corinthians 14:5,18,39 and other places, make it clear that Paul advocated speaking in tongues.

oatmeal
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
Nick M said:
Good answer. Here is mine.
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Thanks,

So then you will take my standing "Pentecostal" challenge? There are no gifts of the Holy Spirit today. Those were a taste of things to come. Unless you can heal the maimed and raise the dead. The deal is, raise the dead, take my house.
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Since I am not a Pentecostal, you are barking up the wrong tree.

When you speak of gifts, are you referring to what scripture refers to as manifestations?

I Corinthians 12:7-11

If so, it would be more appropriate to call them what the word of God calls them.

Namely, manifestations, or more correctly the manifestation.

Which, by the way is given to every man to profit withal.

All believers have all nine, but all are a manifestation of the God given ability

Ie, Acts 2:4

the apostles were filled then they began to speak in tongues.

they needed to be filled first with the ability, then they could do the works that the ability gave them to do.

oatmeal
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
OneGodInChrist said:
I see spiritual gifts in operation on a relatively common basis, especially those in 1 Cor. 12 as well as others. However, they need to always be harnassed by the Word of God to avoid finaticism, and its good to keep in remembrance that signs are suppose to follow beleivers and not beleivers following signs.
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Good call
 
G

godrulz

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Bright Raven said:
Where does scripture say they are not for today?
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There is no exegetical basis for cessationism. Some use a verse in I Cor. 13, but it does not even imply they would end at the start vs end of the Church Age. They will not be needed when we see Jesus (I Jn. 3:2).
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
Nick M said:
Good answer. Here is mine.
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Do you think Paul or Peter or Jesus Christ raised people from the dead on their own whims?

What does obedience to God have to do with your assumption?

Why didn't God let Paul and his companions preach and teach in certain cities? Isn't the gospel for all to hear?

Did Paul obey? Why?
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
What does it means when it says 'when that which is perfect is come then that which is imperfect will be done away with'?
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I Corinthians 13:8-12

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

When that which is perfect is come.

People get mislead by the fact the many times the KJV uses which or that to refer to people, as opposed to objects, which is the current usage of those words.

When will we see the one that is perfect face to face, who is the person that we will see face to face and what will be the result of that?

I John 3:1-2

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
 
Nick M

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
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oatmeal said:
Do you think Paul or Peter or Jesus Christ raised people from the dead on their own whims?
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God granted power over the flesh. That has nothing to do with the dispensation of grace, so why bring it up?
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
Nick M said:
God granted power over the flesh. That has nothing to do with the dispensation of grace, so why bring it up?
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Ok, let's look at that.

"God granted power over the flesh"

What do you mean by that?

and how is a believer to implement in their life?

Would you supply an example of that from scripture?
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
"Dispensation of Grace"__ What???
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Exactly why you are the way you are...preaching from the four Gospel accounts that we are not believers if we don't have the signs and wonders (which you don't have either), yet you know nothing of what Paul wrote even in your own Bible. Typical.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
musterion said:
Exactly why you are the way you are...preaching from the four Gospel accounts that we are not believers if we don't have the signs and wonders (which you don't have either), yet you know nothing of what Paul wrote even in your own Bible. Typical.
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There is nothing coming from you that should cause any to believe you are even saved much less, believe you are a completed Christian. So get your thoughts off me and back yourself, bunky. That would be the safe thing to do.
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
oatmeal said:
Ok, let's look at that.

"God granted power over the flesh"

What do you mean by that?

and how is a believer to implement in their life?

Would you supply an example of that from scripture?
Click to expand...

That we still have the gift of salvation/holy spirit/eternal life available is clear enough.

There is nothing to negate Romans 6:23, for instance.

However, simply receiving a gift, from God or anyone for that matter, is the end of the story.

We must learn what that gift is and how to use it and use it.

We must learn to manifest that gift.

I Corinthians 12:7-11 lists nine ways to manifest that gift.

Not only have individual believers have that gift, but gifts have been given to the body of the church. Ephesians 4:7-11
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
oatmeal said:
That we still have the gift of salvation/holy spirit/eternal life available is clear enough.

There is nothing to negate Romans 6:23, for instance.

However, simply receiving a gift, from God or anyone for that matter, is the end of the story.

We must learn what that gift is and how to use it and use it.

We must learn to manifest that gift.

I Corinthians 12:7-11 lists nine ways to manifest that gift.

BTW, where does one go to "learn" the gifts of the Spirit?

Not only have individual believers have that gift, but gifts have been given to the body of the church. Ephesians 4:7-11
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All were Pentecostal Christians. Do you believe you would fit in that crowd?

Btw: Where does one go to "learn" the gifts of the Spirit?
 
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