ECT MADist thought for the day

[JonahofAkron]

That's right.
Paul explains in Romans 8 that the law was weak through the flesh. Although the law itself is good and holy, it is contrary to the nature of the flesh (Col 2:14). God originally created man to be his own boss in his own world, which is fine while Adam left the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil alone. Once he became aware of morality, the war between flesh and spirit began. The law is simply the full revelation of the knowledge of good and evil laid out in a legal document.

The moment Adam took the fruit he rejected the physical in favor of the spiritual. When he did that he began to die (physically), his world began to die etc. In Romans 8 Paul talks about he who subjected the creation to futility in hope. Obviously it is a physical futility in hope of a spiritual reality. We look for a new world where righteousness dwells (spiritual kingdom). What we see with our own eyes is temporal, but we do not see is eternal.

Agreed. And we should be quick to acknowledge that the Law was not created for salvation and that that is Paul's greatest argument. When we live our lives trying to please anything within the covenant as a set of rules to follow to 'earn' our salvation, we annul the beauty that is His grace.

 

[Tambora]

Foolishness.

If there was no grace for anyone who lived under the law, such as David, then no one who lived under the law was saved.

It is you who makes the grace of God a lie. Not me.

Hebrews 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

Was David saved by law?
No.
He was saved by grace.

 

[Tambora]

And we should be quick to acknowledge that the Law was not created for salvation

Of course the law was not for salvation.

and that that is Paul's greatest argument.

It was one of Paul's arguments. It was not his greatest argument.

When we live our lives trying to please anything within the covenant as a set of rules to follow to 'earn' our salvation, we annul the beauty that is His grace.

Really?
Do you think David, who loved the law and tried to live within the covenant, EARNED his salvation?
Or was his salvation by grace, and not law?

 

[andyc]

andyc's a really pleasant chap, hope you two get acquainted. But, if you get on his bad side, he will passive-aggressively ridicule you to no end...but in a nice "Christian" way.

If I argued for mad in the same way I argue against it, I would be a TOL hero by now. All you madists would love me to bits ha ha!
So attitude is fairly insignificant among madists, I mean you all love NickM and JohnW in spite of them being extremely nasty people.

 

[andyc]

Was David saved by law?
No.
He was saved by grace.

None of those under the law were saved by the law. They trusted that God would not abandon them to the grave. In the end they were all saved by grace, but they never experienced it in their lifetime.

 

[MrDeets]

If I argued for mad in the same way I argue against it, I would be a TOL hero by now. All you madists would love me to bits ha ha!
So attitude is fairly insignificant among madists, I mean you all love NickM and JohnW in spite of them being extremely nasty people.

I love John W the same way I love you and anyone else who has confessed Christ as King. BUT, John W is no where near my favorite person on TOL. But I doubt he thinks he's in a popularity contest, either.

 

[Tambora]

Was David saved by law?
No.
He was saved by grace.

None of those under the law were saved by the law.

Exactly.
And David knew that.

Romans 4
(6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
​

They trusted that God would not abandon them to the grave.

Same as you and I today trust that God will not abandon us to the grave.

In the end they were all saved by grace, but they never experienced it in their lifetime.

Why not?
You and I are not yet physically resurrected from the grave either, and yet we are saved by grace.

 

[Tambora]

I love John W the same way I love you and anyone else who has confessed Christ as King. BUT, John W is no where near my favorite person on TOL. But I doubt he thinks he's in a popularity contest, either.

Right-e-o!

I did not join this site to search for the "popular" folks to rub elbows with.

 

[graceandpeace]

No, there was not just one purpose of the law.
The law showed what was clean, holy, and righteous.

I am speaking of the law of Moses, not the law of Christ.

 

[graceandpeace]

Foolishness.

If there was no grace for anyone who lived under the law, such as David, then no one who lived under the law was saved.

It is you who makes the grace of God a lie. Not me.

I said there was grace..but only by looking FORWARD to the new covenant by FAITH. They did NOT receive the promise in their lifetimes, Tam...for that reason.

It is you that needs to understand a thing or two, and stop calling the truth foolishness.

 

[graceandpeace]

Hebrews 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

and NO one kept it; accept by faith! AMEN, (by looking forward to the new covenant and embracing it)...this is why so many are misled today.

The bible makes it clear that there first had to be the DEATH of the Testator...and, until then, the old was in place...even though Jesus was 'slain from the foundation of the world', in the MIND of God/ through His plan, sin would NOT be removed under the old system, of law.

 

[graceandpeace]

Agreed. And we should be quick to acknowledge that the Law was not created for salvation and that that is Paul's greatest argument. When we live our lives trying to please anything within the covenant as a set of rules to follow to 'earn' our salvation, we annul the beauty that is His grace.

Amen, brother..preach it.

 

[graceandpeace]

Was David saved by law?
No.
He was saved by grace.

David never received the promise in his life time...he was not saved until the cross/new covenant.

He looked forward to salvation...there is NO salvation under the old system.

 

[graceandpeace]

Right-e-o!

I did not join this site to search for the "popular" folks to rub elbows with.

I doubt any of us did.

 

[Tambora]

I am speaking of the law of Moses, not the law of Christ.

So am I.

 

[Nick M]

So attitude is fairly insignificant among madists, I mean you all love NickM and JohnW in spite of them being extremely nasty people.

Hypocrite liar. Demonstrate how I was ever nasty. You can't. Calling you a son of the devil and enemy of righteousness is true, and not nasty.

 

[Tambora]

Foolishness.

If there was no grace for anyone who lived under the law, such as David, then no one who lived under the law was saved.

It is you who makes the grace of God a lie. Not me.

I said there was grace..but only by looking FORWARD to the new covenant by FAITH. They did NOT receive the promise in their lifetimes, Tam...for that reason.

It is you that needs to understand a thing or two, and stop calling the truth foolishness.

You and I look FORWARD to promises also.

 

[Tambora]

Hebrews 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

How about you?
Was that also written to you personally?
Do you accept or reject Moses' law?

 

[Tambora]

and NO one kept it; accept by faith! AMEN, (by looking forward to the new covenant and embracing it)...this is why so many are misled today.

The bible makes it clear that there first had to be the DEATH of the Testator...and, until then, the old was in place...even though Jesus was 'slain from the foundation of the world', in the MIND of God/ through His plan, sin would NOT be removed under the old system, of law.

Wrong.

Galatians 3
(17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
​

When the law came, it had no bearing on the promise that had already come.

 

[Tambora]

Right-e-o!

I did not join this site to search for the "popular" folks to rub elbows with.

I doubt any of us did.

Then why do you throw such a hissy-fit and retaliate when someone doesn't like you?
Are you living under the eye-for-an-eye system?