ECT Our triune God

jerzy

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God is the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ.

As He is the Father of Adam, Eve and everyone else to whom His utterance came.

God speaks the Word, and the Word is God.

We know God only from His utterance.

The Word of God lives in the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lord Jesus Christ obeyed what the Father uttered to him.

God breathes the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is God.

God doesn't breathe another God but He breathes the "wind" (Jn 3:8) which makes things to become.

The Holy Spirit animates the Lord Jesus Christ.

By the "wind" God does His works in/through His temples, in/through man who allows Him do His will.
 

Lon

Well-known member
God is the Father.

God is the Word.

The Word of God is the Wisdom of God.

The mind of Christ is the Word of God is the Wisdom of God.

The mind of Christ is the mind of God.

The Word is led by the Father to receive the Holy Spirit.

God is the Holy Spirit.

John tells us incredibly clearly:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

In fact, to not get it, you'd have to be retarded. Literally.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
It is just that clear. Anybody who says otherwise is mentally handicapped or the worst kind of deceptive liar.

We don't go to idiots or liars for any kind of education whatsoever.

My fellow Triune believers, it is so clear John believed emphatically that Jesus was somehow both with and at the same time was God. It just doesn't get grammatically any clearer that this is exactly what He is saying.

Have your Sunday school kids read this passage with you and ask them who the Word and the Light is that became flesh and shines in the world and makes God known. They will have no problem at all telling you...

...Unless they are mentally challenged. They are too young to be purposefully deceptive.
 

krystyna

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John tells us incredibly clearly:

In fact, to not get it, you'd have to be retarded. Literally.

It is just that clear. Anybody who says otherwise is mentally handicapped or the worst kind of deceptive liar.

We don't go to idiots or liars for any kind of education whatsoever.

My fellow Triune believers, it is so clear John believed emphatically that Jesus was somehow both with and at the same time was God. It just doesn't get grammatically any clearer that this is exactly what He is saying.

Have your Sunday school kids read this passage with you and ask them who the Word and the Light is that became flesh and shines in the world and makes God known. They will have no problem at all telling you...

...Unless they are mentally challenged. They are too young to be purposefully deceptive.

What a blast of arrogance from an ignorant person who has no idea what he is talking about.

To begin with, John doesn't mention Jesus in Jn 1:1-14.

He clearly refers to many such verses like Isa 55:11, Ps 33:6+9 which were later confirmed in Heb 11:3.

This was a common knowledge until people like Lon decided to prove that the Father the only one true God lies in hundreds of proof texts:

Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men, 14 And the same word became fleshe, and dwelt among vs ( and we sawe the glory of it, as the glory of the only begotten sonne of the father) full of grace and trueth.

Geneva 1587:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.

Our modern Concordant Literal Version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being." 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."

The reason our Bibles translate logos as word is that Jerome, a monk of the early fifth century, mistranslated it as verbum.

Jerome’s Vulgate, as it is called, became the official Bible of the Roman Catholic Church, and the texts Jerome used have become the mainstay of contemporary liberal versions. The Latin term Verbum became Word in English.

http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=255.

When last you heard this on Sunday school, Lon?

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


Can you show written the same way that God is Trinity?

No???????

Is that why you have to come up with such arrogance?

Do you think that your arrogance will change God's word?
 

godrulz

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If you cannot see Jesus as Logos in the prologue of John, you are clearly blind and deceived. Context is king.

Jn. 1:17-18 Son=Jesus, right?!
 

krystyna

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If you cannot see Jesus as Logos in the prologue of John, you are clearly blind and deceived. Context is king.

Jn. 1:17-18 Son=Jesus, right?!

Could you highlight in your text that John referred to Jesus not to Isa 55:11?

Could you explain why your story wasn’t known in the 16th century or by those of modern Concordant Literal Version?

Could you explain what John says in, say, Jn 10:34-36?
 

godrulz

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Could you highlight in your text that John referred to Jesus not to Isa 55:11?

Could you explain why your story wasn’t known in the 16th century or by those of modern Concordant Literal Version?

Could you explain what John says in, say, Jn 10:34-36?

Almost no one doubts Jn. 1 is about Jesus. You are wasting our time.:yawn:
 

krystyna

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Almost no one doubts Jn. 1 is about Jesus. You are wasting our time.:yawn:

So you admit that you can not prove your silly story from the scriptures simply because you decided to take a blasphemous view or developed a concept against the Father the only one true God.
 

godrulz

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So you admit that you can not prove your silly story from the scriptures simply because you decided to take a blasphemous view or developed a concept against the Father the only one true God.

No, I showed you that Jn. 1 is about Jesus based on context. The usual debate, even by cultists like you, is whether He is God or a god (which would be a false vs true God).
 

krystyna

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No, I showed you that Jn. 1 is about Jesus based on context. The usual debate, even by cultists like you, is whether He is God or a god (which would be a false vs true God).

All you have shown me is your scriptures ignorance.

I have pointed you to God's word as well as to the Trinitarian renditions of Jn 1.
 

krystyna

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Your conspiracy theories are not fact.

Could you indicate my conspiracy theories her?

Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men, 14 And the same word became fleshe, and dwelt among vs ( and we sawe the glory of it, as the glory of the only begotten sonne of the father) full of grace and trueth.

Geneva 1587:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.

Our modern Concordant Literal Version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being." 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


Can you show written the same way that God is Trinity?
 

Lon

Well-known member
Can you show written the same way that God is Trinity?

Yes. First tell me, are you mentally handicapped that we should feel a bit sorry for you not getting that He was both with and was God? Or are you a deceiver that we should ignore?

To say the Word, who became flesh isn't Jesus, is either stupidity or lie. Which is it for you?
 

zippy2006

New member
This thread is specifically for triune believers. No other need or should post here.

I'm personally boycotting these cultists threads against our view. I have found none of them are here to learn a thing and they certainly don't make a cogent or compelling presentation. Its a waste of bandwidth and time from my experience. This thread is for posting material to help us on our way.

I went to a talk by a Rabbi on Kabbalah on Thursday night. It was very interesting, but the creation myth was inevitably similar to every other non-Christian religion: God got lonely; the unity of God somehow exploded into a multi-faceted universe, etc. An integral part of Christianity, as Ratzinger points out in his Introduction to Christianity, is the Trinity, the existence of I-Thou relationship from the very beginning in the root of existence. This sets the groundwork for freedom and true persons.

:e4e:
 

krystyna

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Yes. First tell me, are you mentally handicapped that we should feel a bit sorry for you not getting that He was both with and was God? Or are you a deceiver that we should ignore?

To say the Word, who became flesh isn't Jesus, is either stupidity or lie. Which is it for you?

Perhaps you should read the scriptures at least once to know what you are talking about instead of demeaning yourself by resorting to such abhorring rhetoric.

Why you don't read Isa 55:11, Ps 33:6+9, Heb 11:3 just to mention but three?

Why don't you consider this extract from Paul's post for the beginning, Lon?

Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men, 14 And the same word became fleshe, and dwelt among vs ( and we sawe the glory of it, as the glory of the only begotten sonne of the father) full of grace and trueth.

Geneva 1587:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.

And now our modern Concordant Literal Version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being." 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."

The word logos appears many, many more times in this very Gospel of John. And nowhere else do the translators capitalize it or use the masculine personal pronoun "he" to agree with it ! The rest of the New Testament is the same. Logos is variously translated as "statement" (Luke 20:20), "question" (Matt 21:24), "preaching" (1 Tim 5:17), "command" (Gal 5:14), "message" (Luke 4:32), "matter" (Acts 15:6), "reason" (Acts 10:29), so there is actually no reason to make John one say that "the Word" is the person Jesus himself, unless of course the translators are wanting to make a point to. In all cases logos is an "it."
 

krystyna

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I went to a talk by a Rabbi on Kabbalah on Thursday night. It was very interesting, but the creation myth was inevitably similar to every other non-Christian religion: God got lonely; the unity of God somehow exploded into a multi-faceted universe, etc. An integral part of Christianity, as Ratzinger points out in his Introduction to Christianity, is the Trinity, the existence of I-Thou relationship from the very beginning in the root of existence. This sets the groundwork for freedom and true persons.

:e4e:

One wonders why you don't follow that Jesus was an impostor and had devil?
 

rainee

New member
Hi Lon,

How I loved this - so well done, excellent and thank you for posting it.




God created the heavens and the earth
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Gen 1:11 God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: plants yielding seeds according to their kinds, and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds." It was so.

We can see from these verses God has created the tree.

Col 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the First-born of all creation.
Col 1:16 For all things were created in Him, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers, all things were created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And He is the Head of the body, the church, who is the Beginning, the First-born from the dead, that He may be pre-eminent in all things.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all fullness should dwell.

We know from Genesis 1:1 God created the heavens and earth. Naturally, the first thing we see in Colossians 1:16 is that all things were created through and for Christ.
We have one of two ways to go here: Either these scriptures disagree with one another, or they completely agree with one another. Some would purport a third option: that God created through Christ Jesus, but the problem with such a view is first, that it is not explicitly given from the text. It is a deduction rather than an idea explicitly given. If, as we read in 2 Timothy 3:16, that all scripture is given by God, we should readily discount the second. We then have the dilemma of these two passages completely agreeing with one another and that we have an equation. God and Christ are used interchangeably so as one is not distinguished from the other.

Doubt verses Denial
The RC has called the triune (Trinitarian) view mysterious. That is, there is an embrace of things not entirely explained which carries the idea that we believe first and if possible, answer what questions we may without going beyond the written scriptures such as the third option above does, with deductive reasoning. We do use deductive reasoning to fill in gaps in missing information, but when it comes to scripture, we admit our lack and loosely (tentatively) hold to a working theory/possibility. A mystery allows for doubt. That is, if a thing is not explained, we may wonder whether we are apprehending or able to apprehend information we are given. In our comparison we see God and Christ used interchangeably as creator. There is nothing from the text that would allow us to deny that God and Christ are equated in scripture. If the scripture does not support denial, denial is purposefully against the written word. If the author of Colossians had wanted to make a stark distinction to how the world was created, he didn’t do so. We cannot assume he neglected this. If he intended that we should see distinction, the text does not give any inclination. Knowing full the Genesis account, this one is written blurring the lines between Genesis 1 and Colossians 1:16. Not novel to the Colossians author, the Apostle John states in similar fashion:

John 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and without Him not a thing came into being that has come into being.




God with us
Isa 7:14 So, the Lord Himself shall give you a sign. Behold, the virgin will conceive and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Immanuel.
Mat 1:22 Now all this happened so that might be fulfilled that which was spoken of the LORD by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 "Behold, the virgin shall conceive in her womb, and will bear a son. And they will call His name Emmanuel," which means, God with us.

If Christ was not God, this prophecy was never fulfilled. Some reinterpret this scripture to mean, “God is for us” eradicating the wording and meaning of this promise.

I see after you posted this people who were asked not to comment or get involved came like flies!
Not only taht they can hardly stay off this thread,LOL!!

It seems you may have found a new way trap a certain kind of person - but the question is what to do with them after you catch them, yes? :dizzy: lol.

Well I will tell you what those non trins have taught me recently.

They have made me think about the Col verses about creation>
And the "Word" in John 1> and the meaning of "spirit" as being related to "breath">

-- and God speaking the creation into existence.

So what I am thinking about in my perhaps Ps82 like way
is:
We speak and might should consider it is with our breath that we do this. We talk by breathing. So did God create the creation by the Word/work of His Breath?

I know He breathed life into Adam with His breath.

But is there more to it?

Is His Word Breathed out something like His Holy Spirit within Himself, or His mind or His Personality, His Will - blowing out?

Some might say our word spoken by us is us making our thought physical (sound)....

I know, I know, how can mainstream believers even talk to people like me? :idunno:

But I wanted to share how those non trins make me think about ideas we may not stop to consider. :D
 

Lon

Well-known member
Hi Lon,

How I loved this - so well done, excellent and thank you for posting it.




I see after you posted this people who were asked not to comment or get involved came like flies!
Not only taht they can hardly stay off this thread,LOL!!

It seems you may have found a new way trap a certain kind of person - but the question is what to do with them after you catch them, yes? :dizzy: lol.

Well I will tell you what those non trins have taught me recently.

They have made me think about the Col verses about creation>
And the "Word" in John 1> and the meaning of "spirit" as being related to "breath">

-- and God speaking the creation into existence.

So what I am thinking about in my perhaps Ps82 like way
is:
We speak and might should consider it is with our breath that we do this. We talk by breathing. So did God create the creation by the Word/work of His Breath?

I know He breathed life into Adam with His breath.

But is there more to it?

Is His Word Breathed out something like His Holy Spirit within Himself, or His mind or His Personality, His Will - blowing out?

Some might say our word spoken by us is us making our thought physical (sound)....

I know, I know, how can mainstream believers even talk to people like me? :idunno:

But I wanted to share how those non trins make me think about ideas we may not stop to consider. :D
It is important not to allow distraction when we are discussing orthodox views vs. unorthodox ones.
The way God created could side-track and waylay the unsuspecting such as a few noted individuals have done in thread. We don't run off to other texts because we don't like what the one we are reading is saying. That's trying to mold God to our image, rather than allowing Him to mold us into His.
The main thrust of this thread isn't so much to get side-tracked on 'how' but to affirm that Christ, in Colossians, is equated with Genesis 1. "How" is certainly an important topic for another thread perhaps. In Him.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Perhaps you should read the scriptures at least once to know what you are talking about instead of demeaning yourself by resorting to such abhorring rhetoric.

Why you don't read Isa 55:11, Ps 33:6+9, Heb 11:3 just to mention but three?

Why don't you consider this extract from Paul's post for the beginning, Lon?
Because it is distraction. Let's stay with one text and not run off toward whatever takes our fancy. Hence, we would allow God to mold us rather than trying to mold Him.

As to the rest of your post, I already said the translations all agreed: "...with God and was God..."

So plain that you are either or here. There is no option C. You are either inept or purposeful in your obtusion. This singular verse makes it quite clear.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Jesus Christ is the word made flesh.

Jesus is not the word alone. To believe so is the conerstone of spiritualism.

LA
 
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