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Bacterial resistance to antibiotics- what is the Creationist explanation?

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  • Bacterial resistance to antibiotics- what is the Creationist explanation?

    As most of us are aware, many bacteria have developed resistance to antibiotics. The usual scientific explanation is an evolutionary one, with selection being the driving force to improved survival (of the bacteria). How do Creationists explain this phenomenon?
    Yes, the selection here is caused by humans- but that doesn't make any difference as far as the mechanism is concerned. If you think random mutation and natural selection cannot generate improved traits- how does this happen? How do the bacteria become resistant to antibiotics?

  • #2
    Originally posted by chair View Post
    As most of us are aware, many bacteria have developed resistance to antibiotics. The usual scientific explanation is an evolutionary one, with selection being the driving force to improved survival (of the bacteria). How do Creationists explain this phenomenon?
    Yes, the selection here is caused by humans- but that doesn't make any difference as far as the mechanism is concerned. If you think random mutation and natural selection cannot generate improved traits- how does this happen? How do the bacteria become resistant to antibiotics?
    We can rule out randomness to the changes: If we create multiple cloned cultures and expose them to the same change in environment, we should see the same genetic alteration in the same timeframe. Much like any other experiment in chemistry, we should expect repeatable results, not randomness.

    The immediateness of the changes would also rule out natural selection.

    To show that the changes generally degrade the genetic integrity of the bacteria, put them back in the normal environment for a few generations and do the experiment again. As the process is repeated, the adaptability of the organism will decrease untill the change in environment either kills it or has no effect.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Stripe View Post
      We can rule out randomness to the changes: If we create multiple cloned cultures and expose them to the same change in environment, we should see the same genetic alteration in the same timeframe. Much like any other experiment in chemistry, we should expect repeatable results, not randomness.

      The immediateness of the changes would also rule out natural selection.

      To show that the changes generally degrade the genetic integrity of the bacteria, put them back in the normal environment for a few generations and do the experiment again. As the process is repeated, the adaptability of the organism will decrease untill the change in environment either kills it or has no effect.
      Stripe, as you would say: pay attention to the challenge.

      I didn't ask what is wrong with the evolutionary explanation. I asked "How do Creationists explain this phenomenon?...How do the bacteria become resistant to antibiotics?"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by chair View Post
        Stripe, as you would say: pay attention to the challenge.

        I didn't ask what is wrong with the evolutionary explanation. I asked "How do Creationists explain this phenomenon?...How do the bacteria become resistant to antibiotics?"
        First, realize that it doesn't matter how YEC explain the phenomenon; common descent is still wrong.

        Secondly, creationist's explanations just happen to be better than common descentist's. The answer is in the question - why are "super bugs" only found in hospitals? why can't they get out?
        Good things come to those who shoot straight.

        Did you only want evidence you are not going to call "wrong"? -Stripe

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Yorzhik View Post
          First, realize that it doesn't matter how YEC explain the phenomenon; common descent is still wrong.
          At least in regards to a single universal common ancestor.
          All of my ancestors are human.
          Originally posted by Squeaky
          That explains why your an idiot.
          Originally posted by God's Truth
          Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
          Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
          (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

          1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
          (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

          Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Yorzhik View Post
            First, realize that it doesn't matter how YEC explain the phenomenon; common descent is still wrong.

            Secondly, creationist's explanations just happen to be better than common descentist's. The answer is in the question - why are "super bugs" only found in hospitals? why can't they get out?
            So far, nobody has presented a Creationist explanation.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by chair View Post
              So far, nobody has presented a Creationist explanation.
              Is your "googler" broken?

              https://creation.com/antibiotic-resi...tion-in-action
              All of my ancestors are human.
              Originally posted by Squeaky
              That explains why your an idiot.
              Originally posted by God's Truth
              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

              Comment


              • #8
                In 1944, a Columbia University doctoral student in genetics named Evelyn Witkin made a fortuitous mistake. During her first experiment in a laboratory at Cold Spring Harbor, in New York, she accidentally irradiated millions of E. coli with a lethal dose of ultraviolet light. When she returned the following day to check on the samples, they were all dead — except for one, in which four bacterial cells had survived and continued to grow. Somehow, those cells were resistant to UV radiation. To Witkin, it seemed like a remarkably lucky coincidence that any cells in the culture had emerged with precisely the mutation they needed to survive — so much so that she questioned whether it was a coincidence at all.

                For the next two decades, Witkin sought to understand how and why these mutants had emerged. Her research led her to what is now known as the SOS response, a DNA repair mechanism that bacteria employ when their genomes are damaged, during which dozens of genes become active and the rate of mutation goes up. Those extra mutations are more often detrimental than beneficial, but they enable adaptations, such as the development of resistance to UV or antibiotics.

                -- Beating the Odds for Lucky Mutations

                Comment


                • #9
                  https://creation.com/superbugs-not-super-after-all

                  "When next you read about ‘supergerms’, remember that everything known about them is consistent with the Genesis creation of an originally good, complex world ruined by sin."

                  One view of science were that such bacteria becme resistance due to improper dose of medicine or that the patient did not finish all the medicine required of them

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by chair View Post
                    So far, nobody has presented a Creationist explanation.
                    I actually did. Even though YEC doesn't need it for UCD to be wrong, the answer is that superbugs cannot get out of the hospital. The reason why should be simple for you but if you want me to spell it out I can. If you want a hint, read about Darwin Devolves by Michael Behe.
                    Good things come to those who shoot straight.

                    Did you only want evidence you are not going to call "wrong"? -Stripe

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by chair View Post
                      I asked "How do Creationists explain this phenomenon?...How do the bacteria become resistant to antibiotics?"
                      They are programmed to respond to changes in their environment.
                      Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                      E≈mc2
                      "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                      "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                      -Bob B.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Yorzhik View Post
                        The reason why should be simple for you but if you want me to spell it out I can.
                        Witkin sought to understand how and why these mutants had emerged. Her research led her to what is now known as the SOS response, a DNA repair mechanism that bacteria employ when their genomes are damaged, during which dozens of genes become active and the rate of mutation goes up. Those extra mutations are more often detrimental than beneficial, but they enable adaptations, such as the development of resistance to UV or antibiotics.

                        -- Beating the Odds for Lucky Mutations

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by User Name View Post
                          Witkin sought to understand how and why these mutants had emerged. Her research led her to what is now known as the SOS response, a DNA repair mechanism that bacteria employ when their genomes are damaged, during which dozens of genes become active and the rate of mutation goes up. Those extra mutations are more often detrimental than beneficial, but they enable adaptations, such as the development of resistance to UV or antibiotics.

                          -- Beating the Odds for Lucky Mutations
                          Thanks for adding support to my point. Why did you post this twice?
                          Good things come to those who shoot straight.

                          Did you only want evidence you are not going to call "wrong"? -Stripe

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            User doesn't have anything to contribute but what he can Google. And he doesn't understand any of it.
                            Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                            E≈mc2
                            "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                            "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                            -Bob B.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This seems to beg the question why "creationism" precludes adaptation, what your point even is. You spend a long time in the sun, you get a tan and don't as easily burn. Manual labor leads to muscle growth and more strength. One gains antibodies through a bodily reaction to a foreign presence, hence one becomes disease resistant. Keep in mind there's no need to first become a baboon, before you can resist measles. Actually, to be frank, I can't find any sense in the notion omnipotent God couldn't design products with features, if idiot man can create a programmable remote control.

                              Perhaps it would be more relevant to ask other questions, if you're sold on evolution. Where is your species change evidence? Where has one creature reproduced to produce a different creature, also noting it's a non-starter to claim the fossil record supports transitional forms? Or perhaps you could explain to everybody how evolution nullifies entropy, what evidence there is of order being created, absent design and energy input, intelligence and work, as oppose to the natural, material order being to do nothing constructive, even drift into decay, on all levels. Tell us about the Big Bang, how, for instance, an explosion was ever used to build a building, as opposed to reducing said building to chaotic rubble, most highly unlikely to reconstruct itself: give us your examples of things you would arrange into order by an explosion, or tell everybody how a stainless watch evolved from iron ore. Perhaps tell us how even a single celled creature requires thousands of simultaneous, complex systems to live, how those systems could have even evolved, or what blood would do, absent the heart. And, please, if you're one of those that really believes a monkey and a typewriter, given enough time, would produce Hamlet or War and Peace, let's just well leave it at, "Never mind. Have a nice day." Whew...

                              You know, there are a lot of big questions YOU really need to deal with, first, before going after Christians over bacteria.

                              Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

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