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Can a Christian lose their salvation?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Idolater View Post
    No Church history begins during the Apostolic era and continues after all the New Testament was written down. The Church is in the Scripture. A lot of NT books mention the Church explicitly.
    Yes it does. Again, the first say thousand years, or even just first five hundred years, yes, that word in the New Testament does mean "Church".
    I don't disagree with any of that.
    Jesus had to die and rise again before anyone can be put in his body, the church.

    When Jesus had his earthly ministry, he taught how to get in his body, his church.

    Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

    Matthew 18:15 [ Dealing With Sin in the Church ] “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.

    Matthew 18:17 If they still refuse to listen,tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.





    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by ok doser View Post
      and

      27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

      28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

      29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
      It could be a dreadful thing to be in God's hands:

      Hebrews 10:26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
      Oh how I love the Word of God!

      Do not just read the word do it.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Idolater View Post
        You forgot "[/thread]", RD. lol.
        So did you not understand my point?
        All of my ancestors are human.
        Originally posted by Squeaky
        That explains why your an idiot.
        Originally posted by God's Truth
        Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
        Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
        (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

        1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
        (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

        Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

        Comment


        • #19
          People can fall away from Jesus see Galatians 5:4; 1 Corinthians 10:12; 2 Peter 3:17. We are warned not to drift away, Hebrews 2:1, not to draw back, Hebrews 10:38; to hold on and stand firm, Hebrews 3:14, 1 Corinthians 15:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15. We are told how not to fall, 2 Peter 1:10, how not to be hardened, Hebrews 3:8,13.

          God can throw people out, Matthew 22:13, blot people out, Exodus 32:32-33, remove your lampstand, Revelation 2:5, sign you a place with unbelievers, Luke 12:46, and cut you off, Romans 11:19-21. We can become defiled, Hebrews 12:15. Our lamps can burn out, Matthew 25:8. We can cause ourselves to have to have Christ formed in us again, Galatians 4:19.

          We are told how to remain in Jesus, John 6:56, and if we do Jesus will remain in us, John 15:4. Jesus tells us of the good if we remain in him, John 15:5, and of the bad when we do not, John 15:6. Jesus exhorts us to remain in him, John 15:9, 10, Acts 14:22, and 1 John 2:24.

          Oh how I love the Word of God!

          Do not just read the word do it.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
            People can fall away from Jesus see Galatians 5:4; 1 Corinthians 10:12; 2 Peter 3:17. We are warned not to drift away, Hebrews 2:1, not to draw back, Hebrews 10:38; to hold on and stand firm, Hebrews 3:14, 1 Corinthians 15:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15. We are told how not to fall, 2 Peter 1:10, how not to be hardened, Hebrews 3:8,13.

            God can throw people out, Matthew 22:13, blot people out, Exodus 32:32-33, remove your lampstand, Revelation 2:5, sign you a place with unbelievers, Luke 12:46, and cut you off, Romans 11:19-21. We can become defiled, Hebrews 12:15. Our lamps can burn out, Matthew 25:8. We can cause ourselves to have to have Christ formed in us again, Galatians 4:19.

            We are told how to remain in Jesus, John 6:56, and if we do Jesus will remain in us, John 15:4. Jesus tells us of the good if we remain in him, John 15:5, and of the bad when we do not, John 15:6. Jesus exhorts us to remain in him, John 15:9, 10, Acts 14:22, and 1 John 2:24.
            So your answer is yes you can loose your salvation?
            He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

            Jim Elliot

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
              Please provide Scripture with your response.
              No!

              Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
              Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

              Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
              Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

              Comment


              • #22
                Obviously, if one believes they are saved by their own meritorious works, then it follows that they can lose salvation by their own unmeritorious works.

                Then, some believe that they merit the merits of Christ through their own meritorious works, in other words, they believe their salvation rests in Christ's work on the cross plus their own good works, as if Christ's perfect sacrifice isn't good enough.

                I didn't earn my salvation.
                It was given to me through GOD's grace.
                And I received it into my empty hands by faith... believing GOD.

                I do not frustrate the grace of GOD, for if righteousness comes by law keeping (personal meritorious works), then Christ died in futility.
                Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
                Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by steko View Post
                  Obviously, if one believes they are saved by their own meritorious works, then it follows that they can lose salvation by their own unmeritorious works.

                  Then, some believe that they merit the merits of Christ through their own meritorious works, in other words, they believe their salvation rests in Christ's work on the cross plus their own good works, as if Christ's perfect sacrifice isn't good enough.

                  I didn't earn my salvation.
                  It was given to me through GOD's grace.
                  And I received it into my empty hands by faith... believing GOD.

                  I do not frustrate the grace of GOD, for if righteousness comes by law keeping (personal meritorious works), then Christ died in futility.
                  We eat Jesus' flesh by obeying his words, his words are Spirit.
                  Oh how I love the Word of God!

                  Do not just read the word do it.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post

                    So your answer is yes you can loose your salvation?
                    Those who can't lose their salvation are those who keep their faith and don't reject Jesus and his teachings.
                    Oh how I love the Word of God!

                    Do not just read the word do it.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                      Please provide Scripture with your response.
                      The question is badly worded; based on a misunderstanding. Nobody currently "has" salvation, because salvation is a process and a state of being, not a thing. How can one lose a process? Can you misplace your state of being?

                      I guess if you're on the path, you can get off the path. That almost makes sense.

                      Oh, and you asked for verses. Here's a couple...

                      Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Phl 2:12

                      Let us run with patience the race that is set before us. Heb 12:1

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Wick Stick View Post
                        The question is badly worded; based on a misunderstanding. Nobody currently "has" salvation, because salvation is a process and a state of being, not a thing. How can one lose a process? Can you misplace your state of being?

                        I guess if you're on the path, you can get off the path. That almost makes sense.

                        Oh, and you asked for verses. Here's a couple...

                        Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Phl 2:12

                        Let us run with patience the race that is set before us. Heb 12:1
                        If you have a personal relationship with Jesus, then you have salvation now.

                        Saved


                        Luke 7:50 Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

                        Acts 15:11
                        No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

                        Ephesians 2:8-9
                        For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

                        Ephesians 2:5
                        made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

                        Ephesians 2:8
                        For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

                        2 Timothy 1:9
                        He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

                        Titus 3:5
                        he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

                        Luke 19:9
                        Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.

                        Oh how I love the Word of God!

                        Do not just read the word do it.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          If you have a personal relationship with Jesus, then you have salvation now.
                          Salvation is just safety. If you believe Jesus' teachings and practice them as part of a group of like-minded individuals, then you have entered that state of safety. You can leave that state by doing what Jesus forbid, failing to do what He commanded, or leaving the confines of the community to act within the world-at-large.

                          Now then, you've quoted a bunch of verses into a vacuum. Lets see if we can give them all back their context!

                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          Saved

                          Luke 7:50 Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
                          This is about the healing of the particular physical affliction of a single woman.

                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          Acts 15:11
                          No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
                          What's under consideration a hypothetical-but-prophesied future event in this verse, dealing with the judgment and dispersion of the Jewish nation, from which the apostles and nascent church believed they would be spared (spoiler: they were).

                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          Ephesians 2:8-9
                          For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

                          Ephesians 2:5
                          made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

                          Ephesians 2:8
                          For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
                          In Ephesians 2, Paul repeatedly refer back to the initial re-generation of the Ephesian believers (their conversion). See Eph 2:1. With the establishment of the church at Ephesus, the believers there did indeed enter into salvation. This does not mean they were all granted OSAS-status-straight-into-heaven. It was still necessary that they walked out that salvation, and it's a fair guess that some of them didn't.

                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          2 Timothy 1:9
                          He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.
                          Paul is writing to Timothy, and juxtaposes his current state (incarcerated, awaiting trial, very much endangered) against his ultimate fate (resurrected, incorruptible). It should be clear that this hasn't happened yet at the time of writing.

                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          Titus 3:5
                          He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
                          Paul writes to Titus a short manual of basic doctrines and advice for dealing with a church (in Crete) which was largely reprobate and undisciplined. In this passage, he compares the behavior of the Cretans to his own past misdeeds, urging Titus to be long-suffering towards them (as by comparison God was long-suffering towards Paul).

                          Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          [URL="http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Titus%203.5%20/%20_blank"]
                          Luke 19:9Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.
                          This is again a conversion event. They began their walk that day. They didn't finish it the same day.

                          Jarrod

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Wick Stick View Post
                            Salvation is just safety. If you believe Jesus' teachings and practice them as part of a group of like-minded individuals, then you have entered that state of safety. You can leave that state by doing what Jesus forbid, failing to do what He commanded, or leaving the confines of the community to act within the world-at-large.

                            Now then, you've quoted a bunch of verses into a vacuum. Lets see if we can give them all back their context!
                            No such thing as being saved being out of context.

                            Originally posted by Wick Stick View Post
                            This is about the healing of the particular physical affliction of a single woman.
                            No.
                            Jesus was speaking to her about forgiveness of sins.


                            Originally posted by Wick Stick View Post

                            What's under consideration a hypothetical-but-prophesied future event in this verse, dealing with the judgment and dispersion of the Jewish nation, from which the apostles and nascent church believed they would be spared (spoiler: they were).
                            None of that makes sense to me.
                            Jesus was teaching right then and there about the grace of forgiveness through faith in him.

                            Originally posted by Wick Stick View Post
                            In Ephesians 2, Paul repeatedly refer back to the initial re-generation of the Ephesian believers (their conversion). See Eph 2:1. With the establishment of the church at Ephesus, the believers there did indeed enter into salvation. This does not mean they were all granted OSAS-status-straight-into-heaven. It was still necessary that they walked out that salvation, and it's a fair guess that some of them didn't.
                            When a person is saved, at that time they are reconciled to God. God lives inside of them, and we are placed in Him in heaven.

                            Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

                            Colossians 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

                            Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.


                            Originally posted by Wick Stick View Post

                            Paul is writing to Timothy, and juxtaposes his current state (incarcerated, awaiting trial, very much endangered) against his ultimate fate (resurrected, incorruptible). It should be clear that this hasn't happened yet at the time of writing.
                            I am not sure what you are talking about.

                            Originally posted by Wick Stick View Post
                            Paul writes to Titus a short manual of basic doctrines and advice for dealing with a church (in Crete) which was largely reprobate and undisciplined. In this passage, he compares the behavior of the Cretans to his own past misdeeds, urging Titus to be long-suffering towards them (as by comparison God was long-suffering towards Paul).


                            This is again a conversion event. They began their walk that day. They didn't finish it the same day.

                            Jarrod
                            We are saved now, and are continually being saved, and will be saved in the end, if we continue to have faith and obedience to Christ.
                            Oh how I love the Word of God!

                            Do not just read the word do it.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                              Can a Christian lose their salvation?
                              Please provide Scripture with your response.
                              People who think this verse does not apply to Christians will never believe the truth about it.

                              Ezekiel 18:24
                              24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.



                              Learn to read what is written.

                              _____
                              The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                              ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by steko View Post
                                Obviously, if one believes they are saved by their own meritorious works, then it follows that they can lose salvation by their own unmeritorious works.

                                Then, some believe that they merit the merits of Christ through their own meritorious works, in other words, they believe their salvation rests in Christ's work on the cross plus their own good works, as if Christ's perfect sacrifice isn't good enough.

                                I didn't earn my salvation.
                                It was given to me through GOD's grace.
                                And I received it into my empty hands by faith... believing GOD.

                                I do not frustrate the grace of GOD, for if righteousness comes by law keeping (personal meritorious works), then Christ died in futility.
                                Do you think Paul was mistaken about it?

                                Romans 2:7
                                7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

                                Learn to read what is written.

                                _____
                                The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                                ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                                Comment

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