ROMANS 5:1 JUSTIFIED BY FAITH

[The Barbarian]

But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, - Romans 4:5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans4:5&version=NKJV

The Good Thief, for example did only repent and call on God, who had mercy on him. He expects more of those able to do more. According to Jesus, this is how He will decide who is saved, and who is not:

Matthew 25:31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. [32] And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: [33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. [34] Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

[36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. [37] Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

[41] Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. [42] For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. [43] I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. [44] Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? [45] Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

[46] And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

You were saying?

That's God saying. And of course, this:

James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

That's what God is saying. I don't think He's kidding.

 

[God's Truth]

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

By faith, by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and his gospel (Romans 1:9 Romans 2:16 Romans 1:16), we are justified unto eternal life. We have the imputed righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ by faith in his blood (Romans 4:24 Philippians 3:9).

If we believe what about the Lord Jesus Christ? We have to believe that we have to obey him.

We are justified unto eternal life if we obey by repenting of sins and promising to die to the sins of the world.

There is nothing we have to do to keep this justification.

Nothing we have to do? You lazy and wicked servant: see Matthew 25:26.

Being justified means we are. We are justified by the propitiation of Christ and his cross (Romans 3:25 1 Corinthians 1:18 Colossians 1:20).

We are to have the full assurance of salvation (Colossians 2:2).

Error in regards to the assurance of our salvation comes from misunderstanding passages in Paul's epistles such as Philippians 2:12 Romans 11:22 Colossians 1:23 and 1 Timothy 4:16.

Error also occurs by the misapplication of God's dealings with Israel. Israel is promised salvation but does not receive it until the coming of Christ

No, the Jews are like EVERYONE ELSE, and they do NOT receive it until they come to Jesus in repentance of sins.

(1 Peter 1:13 Acts 3:19). Israel has to be righteous to obtain salvation in the kingdom (Deuteronomy 6:24-25 Matthew 5:20). Israel was to identify true believers by their fruit (Matthew 7:16). Israel has to endure to the end to be saved to enter the kingdom on earth (Matthew 24:13). If these conditions are misapplied to the church today it will produce loss of assurance.

We are created in Christ unto good works, but our salvation does not depend on them (Ephesians 2:10).

5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

It is by the Lord Jesus Christ that we access by faith this grace. We are to stand (Romans 8:37-39 1 Corinthians 15:1) and rejoice in hope, in full confidance of our expectation of glory (Romans 8:18).

5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

We have no strength to save ourselves anymore than we can keep our salvation.

5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

We were sinners when Christ died for us and as such, helpless to save ourselves.

5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

We have now been justified by his blood and have been saved from wrath. How contrary to the truth to say we can, in any way, justify ourselves or keep our salvation when it is only by the blood of Christ that we are saved from wrath.

5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Being reconciled means we are reconciled to God, and can not be undone.

Reconciled to God means that we are put in Him and He in us.

Reconciled to God is about being in God's hands. If you are in God's hands and keep sinning as always, IT IS A DREADFUL THING.


Hebrews 10:31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Romans 2:3
So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?

1 Corinthians 11:31
But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.

1 Timothy 3:6
He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.

1 Corinthians 9:27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

See 2 Corinthians 13:5, Hebrews 10:31, Luke 12:46, Romans 11:19-21, Galatians 4:19, John 15:6, 1 Corinthians 15:2, Luke 13:28, Matthew 8:12, and Matthew 5:13.



I want to hear how you try to wiggle our of those scriptures.

We now have the atonement, or have been reconciled to God. There is nothing that can make us think this can be lost except error.

You have deceived yourself.


James 1:16 Don't be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters.

James 1:22 Be doers of the word, and not hearers only. Otherwise, you are deceiving yourselves.


Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men

 

[Cntrysner]

The Good Thief, for example did only repent and call on God, who had mercy on him. He expects more of those able to do more. According to Jesus, this is how He will decide who is saved, and who is not:


James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? [/COLOR]

That's what God is saying. I don't think He's kidding.

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:


You nullify the dispensation of the grace of God.

Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

 

[Poly]

I get stopped many times.

That's not true. People may disagree with your interpretation of the scripture but no one is stopping you from using it.

 

[God's Truth]

That's not true. People may disagree with your interpretation of the scripture but no one is stopping you from using it.

I have been stopped many times from speaking about the Bible.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I have been stopped many times from speaking about the Bible.

No, you haven't.

 

[God's Truth]

Because you say so?



It is by faith in Christ that we are SAVED, NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.

Christ's blood was payment for sin.



Well, no. The purification works were part of the law, which included "do not murder, steal, commit adultery, bear false witness, etc."

James said:

If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. - James 2:8-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James2:8-13&version=NKJV

Why, GT, do you show partiality to the law, saying you only have to keep these laws, but not those laws?

If you are guilty of breaking one law, you are guilty of all.



To me, it just sounds like you're desperate for your position to be affirmed.



No one is stopping you...

Proof that the works are about purification works that we don’t have to do anymore.

Every time Paul says 'not of by works', he is talking about not of the works of the law, the purification works of the law like circumcision.


Romans 2:25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.

Romans 2:27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

Romans 2:28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.

Romans 2:29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Romans 3:1 [ God’s Faithfulness ] What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision?

Romans 4:11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.

Ephesians 2:11 [ Jew and Gentile Reconciled Through Christ ] Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)—

Ephesians 2:15 by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace

Circumcision is one of the works of the law the people had to do to CLEAN THEMSELVES.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses, 14having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away,nailing it to the cross! 15And having disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.16Thereforelet no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a festival, a New Moon, or a Sabbath.

 

[God's Truth]

No, you haven't.

You going to work yourself up again and stop me from speaking about the Bible?

Why don't you reply to all the scriptures I give instead of keeping saying 'no you haven't'?

 

[Cntrysner]

You going to work yourself up again and stop me from speaking about the Bible?

Why don't you reply to all the scriptures I give instead of keeping saying 'no you haven't'?

Nobody here that I've noticed is working against you.

What difference is works of the law or works of the flesh? They're still workers.

If you are working in your flesh what are you working for?

Salvation is a gift.

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If is a gift it is no more of works of any kind.

Rom_11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[God's Truth]

Nobody here that I've noticed is working against you.

Why are you saying that? I don't even know who you are.

What difference is works of the law or works of the flesh? They're still works.

Obeying Jesus' words are SPIRITUAL.

If you are working in your flesh what are you working for?

You don't even have to move a muscle to do what Jesus says to do to get saved.

Salvation is a gift.

The gift is given to God's children.

If anyone wants the gift they have to become a child of God's first.

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If is a gift it no more of works of any kind.

Rom_11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Paul is talking about the works of the law, which are the purification works.

 

[Cntrysner]

Why are you saying that? I don't even know who you are.

I am here, so let's get to know each other.

Obeying Jesus' words are SPIRITUAL.

Obedience is not of works least any boast.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You don't even have to move a muscle to do what Jesus says to do to get saved.

Then what will your works do for you?

The gift is given to God's children.

If anyone wants the gift they have to become a child of God's first.

One can only receive a gift by not working for it.

Paul is talking about the works of the law, which are the purification works.

Three works are possible and here they are...

Gal_2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal_5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


Notice the last is the fruit of the Spirit and those works are Christ in us not of ourselves.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[God's Truth]

I am here, so let's get to know each other.

Why thanks, it sounds really good.

Obedience is not of works least any boast.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Paul is speaking of the purification works.

Obeying Jesus' words are SPIRITUAL.
John 6:63 The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

Then what will your works do for you?

Obeying Jesus’ words will get you the Spirit and life.

One can only receive a gift by not working for it.

Only a child of God will get the gift.

Matthew 18:3 "I assure you," He said, "unless you are converted and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

John 14:18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me.

Three works are possible and here they are...

Gal_2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal_5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


Notice the last is the fruit of the Spirit and those works are Christ in us not of ourselves.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Jesus saves us all on his own, and he tells us what we have to do to be the one he saves.

 

[beloved57]

I don't see why you are citing these verses

Is that how you ignore them ? To me they speak of Justification by the blood of Christ and by the Grace of God ! Do you not believe them ?

 

[The Barbarian]

According to Jesus, this is how He will decide who is saved, and who is not:

Matthew 25:31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. [32] And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: [33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. [34] Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

[36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. [37] Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

[41] Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. [42] For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. [43] I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. [44] Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? [45] Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

[46] And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.


That's God saying. And of course, this:

James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

That's what God is saying. I don't think He's kidding.

You nullify the dispensation of the grace of God.

That's God speaking, not me. And notice He doesn't nullify anything but man's doctrine of "faith alone." As God says, one is justified by faith as well as by works. Cafeteria Christians take what they like of His word and leave the rest. That's what lukewarm Christians do.

 

[DougE]

According to Jesus, this is how He will decide who is saved, and who is not:

Matthew 25:31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. [32] And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: [33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. [34] Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

[36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. [37] Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

[41] Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. [42] For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. [43] I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. [44] Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? [45] Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

[46] And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.


That's God saying. And of course, this:

James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

That's what God is saying. I don't think He's kidding.



That's God speaking, not me. And notice He doesn't nullify anything but man's doctrine of "faith alone." As God says, one is justified by faith as well as by works. Cafeteria Christians take what they like of His word and leave the rest. That's what lukewarm Christians do.

Please look at Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

This is only referring to the judgment of the nations when Christ returns to establish his kingdom on earth. This is describing the nations that will enter the kingdom along with believing Israel.

 

[The Barbarian]

Please look at Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

This is only referring to the judgment of the nations when Christ returns to establish his kingdom on earth. This is describing the nations that will enter the kingdom along with believing Israel.

Sorry, that excuse won't work. Jesus says nothing about that. He merely tells His people how He will know them.

Instead of trying to make it your way, just accept it His way. As God says, one is justified by works as well as by faith. If you're not ready to accept that, you aren't ready for Him.

 

[DougE]

Sorry, that excuse won't work. Jesus says nothing about that. He merely tells His people how He will know them.

Instead of trying to make it your way, just accept it His way. As God says, one is justified by works as well as by faith. If you're not ready to accept that, you aren't ready for Him.

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

He is speaking of the nations in Matthew 25:32 That is what it says.

In Matthew 25:34 it is inheriting the kingdom on earth prepared from the foundation of the world.
The church was chosen before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1:4

 

[JudgeRightly]

Sorry, that excuse won't work. Jesus says nothing about that. He merely tells His people how He will know them.

Instead of trying to make it your way, just accept it His way. As God says, one is justified by works as well as by faith. If you're not ready to accept that, you aren't ready for Him.

So, Barbarian, do you think you're good enough to go to heaven?

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Sorry, that excuse won't work. Jesus says nothing about that. He merely tells His people how He will know them.

Instead of trying to make it your way, just accept it His way. As God says, one is justified by works as well as by faith. If you're not ready to accept that, you aren't ready for Him.

(frantic repositioning of goalposts)

So, Barbarian, do you think you're good enough to go to heaven?

See Matthew 25. If I do what Jesus says will give me a lifetime of eternity with Him, then I will. How about you?

You think you've done what He expects us to do?

 

[The Barbarian]

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

He is speaking of the nations in Matthew 25:32 That is what it says.

He's speaking to every one of us. He doesn't say "if you're in the right nation, you'll go with me." He says "if you took care of me by taking care of the unfortunate, you'll go with me."

I'd believe Him, if I were you.