I gave you the scripture that stated it was an operation of God, you just did not pay attention. No operation of man is now required but the operations or works are still required, it's God's work in Christ.
Is Baptism a requirement for Salvation
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
I gave you the scripture that stated it was an operation of God, you just did not pay attention. No operation of man is now required but the operations or works are still required, it's God's work in Christ.
Yet you submit to the rite of water baptism. Don't you know it was for remission of sins? It was not a sign for you. The sign for you is to preach Christ crucified.
Paul said ..for Christ sent me not to baptise (in water)but to preach the Gospel.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Right, got it.
Funny, but I am saying the same thing in regards to baptism, but you dont want to hear it.
drbrumley
Well-known member
your now arguing just to argue. probably dont know when to shut up either.
Why is this so hard to understand. Christ told the apostles to not go to the Gentiles and that he came because God was not done working with them and their beliefs.
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
This ties to the so called great commission and connecting to the water baptism that John the Baptist performed and Peter preached at Pentecost. Why did Christ tell the apostles to not go to Gentiles? Then Saul is called and says Christ sent me not to water baptize for remission but to preach the gospel.
Christ's message was correct but the apostles misunderstood His message so Christ called Paul and Paul received many revelations concerning the gospel.
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
This ties to the so called great commission and connecting to the water baptism that John the Baptist performed and Peter preached at Pentecost. Why did Christ tell the apostles to not go to Gentiles? Then Saul is called and says Christ sent me not to water baptize for remission but to preach the gospel.
Christ's message was correct but the apostles misunderstood His message so Christ called Paul and Paul received many revelations concerning the gospel.
You know you heard me.
No you did not say the same thing, you probably still think water baptism is a sign of your salvation and it is not, it was for the Jews and it was for remission of sins..
Right Divider
Body part
Act 19:1-7 KJV And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, (2) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. (3) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. (4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. (5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (6) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (7) And all the men were about twelve.
The THEY in Verse 5 refers to John's hearers responding to John and NOT these TWELVE responding to Paul.
Water baptism has NO place in the body of Christ and Paul makes that clear by saying that there is ONE baptism in the body of Christ.
Eph 4:3-6 KJV Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. (4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (6) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
That ONE baptism is NOT water... it is the baptism BY the Holy Spirit INTO the body of Christ.
1Co 12:12-13 KJV For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. (13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
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Right Divider
Body part
Yes, a wrong example.
you're saying that Jesus is not the proper example to follow?
drbrumley
Well-known member
Verse 7? You mean 5 correct?
drbrumley
Well-known member
(4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. (5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
If you are saying the "they" in verse 5 are Johns (past), I am going to have to respectfully disagree...There is NO WAY that can be true....I am going to need to see evidence of this...
If you are saying the "they" in verse 5 are Johns (past), I am going to have to respectfully disagree...There is NO WAY that can be true....I am going to need to see evidence of this...
Greetings again Jerry,
1 Peter 1:23–25 (KJV): 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Colossians 3:3–4 (KJV): 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
I look to the example of Abraham and his progression from initial belief Genesis 12:1-3, a saving belief Genesis 15:5-6, a strong belief Romans 4:17-22 and a mature or complete belief that was fully shown in action James 2:20-26.
Kind regards
Trevor
I appreciate your response but I do not agree with your perspective. Yes we are quickened by the Spirit, but this can be from the written or spoken Word. Faith is the product and this leads to water baptism. Faith is the title deeds for eternal life, but if we turn aside we will be rejected at the judgement.
1 Peter 1:23–25 (KJV): 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Colossians 3:3–4 (KJV): 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
I look to the example of Abraham and his progression from initial belief Genesis 12:1-3, a saving belief Genesis 15:5-6, a strong belief Romans 4:17-22 and a mature or complete belief that was fully shown in action James 2:20-26.
Kind regards
Trevor
heir
TOL Subscriber
Amen!
heir
TOL Subscriber
Walking worthy of the vocation wherewith we are called endevouring to keep the unity of the Spirit is to NOT water baptize!
Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Ephesians 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
What "leads" you to water baptize is religious and denominational, but not what the Lord would have you to do.
And for the love of Mike, stop mixing that which was written to Israel outside of the dispensation of the gospel and of the grace of God with that which is written to us, the church, which is Christ's body.
Greetings “heir”,
Mark 16:15–16 (KJV): 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Matthew 28:18–20 (KJV): 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Our Sunday School teacher often used the following sequence of quotes: Galatians 13:14-15, Galatians 3:8,16,26-29. He was teaching us that the Gospel included the promise of the Land to Abraham and his Seed, and that the believer in Christ could inherit this Land promise by belief and baptism into Christ. A few of my mates were baptised when 19 or 20, while I was baptised when I was 21. This was our environment then, and we maintain this today, baptising our children in their later teens and interested friends upon a belief and confession of the Gospel when they wanted to be identified with Christ's death and resurrection and the hope of the return of Jesus to establish His Kingdom.
Kind regards
Trevor
I appreciate your response and you seem to be used to a different environment with different teaching. Ephesians 4:1-6 in my understanding is instruction to those who have already believed the Gospel and had become members of the Congregation at Ephesus when they had been baptised in water. To give an example of my environment as teenagers we were taught aspects of the Gospel at Sunday School and at the Public Address on Sunday Evening, and often the Evening Address would conclude with the following event and instruction:
Mark 16:15–16 (KJV): 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Matthew 28:18–20 (KJV): 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Our Sunday School teacher often used the following sequence of quotes: Galatians 13:14-15, Galatians 3:8,16,26-29. He was teaching us that the Gospel included the promise of the Land to Abraham and his Seed, and that the believer in Christ could inherit this Land promise by belief and baptism into Christ. A few of my mates were baptised when 19 or 20, while I was baptised when I was 21. This was our environment then, and we maintain this today, baptising our children in their later teens and interested friends upon a belief and confession of the Gospel when they wanted to be identified with Christ's death and resurrection and the hope of the return of Jesus to establish His Kingdom.
I subscribe to the teaching that there is only One Gospel and one method of salvation, justification by belief of the One Gospel from Eden to now.
Kind regards
Trevor
Right Divider
Body part
Absolutely!!!
During His time on earth, Jesus was a Jew under the law. He was a minister of the circumcision (Rom 15:8).
If you're trying to follow that model, you're doing it completely wrong.
Right Divider
Body part
Yes, corrected original post.
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Right Divider
Body part
Most of Churchianity and most of the people on this site are Bible blenders/mashers. It's a common problem and leads to all kinds of confusion.
and who would you suggest?