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Is Baptism a requirement for Salvation

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  • #16
    Greetings again Jerry,
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So you disagree that the eunuch was born of God before he was baptized with water? Would you explain why?
    The record of the incident is in Acts 8:26-39. Briefly the Eunuch had been to Jerusalem to worship and this indicates that he believed in God as revealed in the OT and had not yet been converted to believe that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, nor had he heard or accepted that Jesus had been crucified, and died and then resurrected and exalted. Nevertheless he had an enquiring mind and was reading a portion of Scripture including part of Isaiah 53. Philip explained that this Scripture had been fulfilled in Jesus and then he preached other aspects concerning Jesus. This preaching led to a wholehearted belief of these things and a desire to be baptised, confessing that he believed that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Now getting back to your question, I understand the process of hearing the word, believing the gospel preached and then desiring baptism in water and confession of belief before the administration of baptism is one process. It is one birth consisting of conception, quickening and birth, the actual birth being by means of water. In the case of the Eunuch, this happened in the same day, but the one process can happen over a period of time.
    The rite of water baptism had nothing to do with an identification of the Lord Jesus' death and resurrection. That idea is not found in the Scriptures and is just an invention of men.
    I have already quoted Romans 6:3-12 in my first post (#5) and this teaches that true water baptism is an identification with the death and resurrection of Jesus. Possibly this highlights the difference between my belief that Jesus died as our representative, not as our substitute. Both this passage and Paul’s statement in the following indicates the significance of water baptism and the crucified / risen life that follows, both based on the idea of representation and our participation:
    Galatians 2:20 (KJV): I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    The remission of sins in this instance was not in regard to "salvation" but instead in regard to being in "fellowship" with the Lord.
    The baptism of Acts 2:38 was for the purpose of cleansing those who were already saved to bring them back to "fellowship" with the Lord. It served the same purpose as the "confession" of sin which the Apostle John speaks of here: (1 Jn.1:5-6,9).[/INDENT]
    Here John is saying that if we "confess" our sins then we will be cleansed from the things which interrupt our "fellowship" with God. The baptism of repentance was also in regard to confessing sins: (Mt.3:1-2,5-6).
    The remission of sins under John the Baptist was salvation, but it was the start of a life going forward, and those that then heard the teaching of Jesus and witnessed his life, death and resurrection needed to continue on in the faith. Those that had been saved under the preaching of John the Baptist could fall away if they did not then accept Jesus. The preaching by Peter was also for salvation. The confession of sin in 1 John 1:5-6,9 is speaking of believers and the need to seek forgiveness for sins after coming to the faith. This is different to the preaching of John the Baptist and Peter and the initial belief, repentance and baptism.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
      What say you?
      no way!
      2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

      Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by TrevorL View Post
        It is one birth consisting of conception, quickening and birth, the actual birth being by means of water.
        A person is quickened "together" with Christ (Eph.2:5) and that life is described as being "eternal" (1 Jn.5:11).

        And those who believe receive this eternal life which is in the Son:

        "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath eternal life"
        (Jn.6:47).

        Those who believed before they were baptized with water had already received eternal life which is in the Son. so water baptism had nothing to do with their salvation.

        Originally posted by TrevorL View Post
        I have already quoted Romans 6:3-12 in my first post (#5) and this teaches that true water baptism is an identification with the death and resurrection of Jesus.
        Today there is only one baptism (Eph.4:5) and that baptism is the one which baptizes believers into the Body of Christ (1 Cor.12:13) and that same baptism by the Holy Spirit also baptizes the believer into the death of the Lord Jesus (Ro.6:3-4).

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
          What say you?
          If you have no opportunity to be baptized, then it is not necessary.

          If you have the opportunity, you need to take it.

          Acts 8:35-38
          35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
          36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
          37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
          38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

          Learn to read what is written.

          _____
          The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
          ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
            If you have no opportunity to be baptized, then it is not necessary.

            If you have the opportunity, you need to take it.

            Acts 8:35-38
            35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
            36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
            37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
            38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
            Acts 8 has NOTHING to do with the body of Christ.
            All of my ancestors are human.
            Originally posted by Squeaky
            That explains why your an idiot.
            Originally posted by God's Truth
            Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
            Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
            (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

            1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
            (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

            Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
              Acts 8 has NOTHING to do with the body of Christ.
              You can continue being wrong about that if you want to.
              Learn to read what is written.

              _____
              The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
              ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                You can continue being wrong about that if you want to.
                But I'm not wrong. So there's that.
                All of my ancestors are human.
                Originally posted by Squeaky
                That explains why your an idiot.
                Originally posted by God's Truth
                Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                  If you have no opportunity to be baptized, then it is not necessary.

                  If you have the opportunity, you need to take it.

                  Acts 8:35-38
                  35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
                  36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
                  37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
                  38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
                  It is good to be baptized but not necessary for salvation.
                  He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                  Jim Elliot

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                    It is good to be baptized but not necessary for salvation.
                    Why is it good to perform a water ceremony?
                    All of my ancestors are human.
                    Originally posted by Squeaky
                    That explains why your an idiot.
                    Originally posted by God's Truth
                    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                      You can continue being wrong about that if you want to.
                      He's not wrong...you need to work it out in your head.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                        Why is it good to perform a water ceremony?
                        Concerning salvation, a water ritual is bad. You're only allowed one baptism not two, pick one or you lose.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cntrysner View Post
                          He's not wrong...you need to work it out in your head.
                          Let me guess.....the church started in Acts 2?
                          The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

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                          • #28
                            Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cntrysner View Post
                              Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
                              Amen, but was there a point in there?
                              The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by drbrumley View Post
                                Let me guess.....the church started in Acts 2?
                                Their pet scripture ....
                                Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

                                No water in the verse or was there? No sign of the Holy Spirit indwelling but they did receive power.

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