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Jacob's Ladder: A Hidden Prophecy of Jesus and His Followers

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  • genuineoriginal
    replied
    Originally posted by Nang View Post
    In the O.T. era, sinners were saved by faith in God's promise of a "Seed"; the Messiah to come.
    I can't find anywhere in the Bible where it says Old Testament sinners were saved by faith in a promised "seed".

    Are you attempting to use historical revisionism on the Bible to get it to say something it doesn't say?

    Leave a comment:


  • Right Divider
    replied
    Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
    So Peter was saying, according to you, that the Jews were not a people in the past and had not obtained God's mercy, but had now become a people and had obtained mercy. Really? So the Jews were never a people, a nation, a tribe descended from a single family?
    Not until God separated them from other people.

    Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
    Where do you find that in Scripture? And where do we find the Bible calling the Jews strangers and pilgrims? A Jew calling fellow Jews strangers and pilgrims?
    The "stranger and pilgrims" are the SAME people that James is writing to.

    Jas 1:1 KJV James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

    1Pe 1:1 KJV Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

    Those are Israelite's scattered into gentile lands starting in Acts 8:1.

    Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
    Show me from Scripture were one Jew ever considered another Jew a stranger and a pilgrim. To the Jew a stranger and a pilgrim was always someone from another nation, another family, descended, not from Abraham but from other nations, other families.
    Israelite's scattered abroad into gentiles lands.

    Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
    The Jews disallowed that the strangers and pilgrims had equal access to God. They didn't allege that of themselves. They were the chosen ones. The inheritors of the promises to Abraham.
    1Pe 2:11-12 KJV Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; (12) Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.


    Leave a comment:


  • ffreeloader
    replied
    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
    Peter is quoting scripture about Israel. Exodus 19
    That's not what Peter says in chapter 1..

    1Peter 1: 1Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
    2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
    3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
    4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
    5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
    6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
    7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
    8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
    9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
    10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
    11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
    So Peter was saying, according to you, that the Jews were not a people in the past and had not obtained God's mercy, but had now become a people and had obtained mercy. Really? So the Jews were never a people, a nation, a tribe descended from a single family? Where do you find that in Scripture? And where do we find the Bible calling the Jews strangers and pilgrims? A Jew calling fellow Jews strangers and pilgrims? Show me from Scripture were one Jew ever considered another Jew a stranger and a pilgrim. To the Jew a stranger and a pilgrim was always someone from another nation, another family, descended, not from Abraham but from other nations, other families.

    The Jews disallowed that the strangers and pilgrims had equal access to God. They didn't allege that of themselves. They were the chosen ones. The inheritors of the promises to Abraham.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nang
    replied
    Originally posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and since you say that there are TWO ERA'S , EXPLAIN Rom 5:14 , That death reigned FROM Adam to Moses , SO what is the GOSPEL and how were they SAVED ??

    dan p
    The times between Adam and Moses is part of the O.T. era; in that it was a time of men were saved by believing promise of Christ given by God in Genesis 3:15.

    The "Seed" of woman who would retaliate against and destroy the devil who deceived in the garden.

    God promised:

    "I will put enmity between you (Satan)and the woman (Eve), and between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head [see Habakkuk 3:13b; Hebrews 2:14] and you shall bruise His heel." Genesis 3:15

    This was the first proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    And beginning from Seth, a familial lineage of Godly men called on the name of the Lord (exhibiting saving faith) unto Noah. Genesis 4:26-5:32

    Leave a comment:


  • DAN P
    replied
    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
    O.T. era
    N.T. era

    More made up baloney.
    Hi and since you say that there are TWO ERA'S , EXPLAIN Rom 5:14 , That death reigned FROM Adam to Moses , SO what is the GOSPEL and how were they SAVED ??

    dan p

    Leave a comment:


  • Nang
    replied
    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
    O.T. era
    N.T. era

    More made up baloney.
    O.T. era = BC dating (before Christ)

    N.T. era = AD dating (after Christ)

    Note: Both eras involve the entire human race, not just the Jewish nation.

    Persons were saved before the birth of Christ by believing in God's Covenant promises of a coming Savior. Persons of all races are being saved after the birth of Christ by believing the Savior indeed has come from God as promised.

    Why do you call such biblical facts "baloney?"

    ?????

    What is your gripe?

    Leave a comment:


  • Right Divider
    replied
    Originally posted by Nang View Post
    In the O.T. era, sinners were saved by faith in God's promise of a "Seed"; the Messiah to come.

    In the N.T. era, sinners are saved by faith in God's fulfillment of that promise by sending His Son Jesus Christ into the world.
    O.T. era
    N.T. era

    More made up baloney.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nang
    replied
    Originally posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi Nang and the above , have no verses for PROOF , so lets have them ?

    If there is only one GOSPEL , explain how people were saved from Adam to MOSES , Rom 5:14 ?

    dan p
    In the O.T. era, sinners were saved by faith in God's promise of a "Seed"; the Messiah to come.

    In the N.T. era, sinners are saved by faith in God's fulfillment of that promise by sending His Son Jesus Christ into the world.

    Leave a comment:


  • DAN P
    replied
    Originally posted by Nang View Post
    Israel was an O.T. nation, and "Israel" is also named as a remnant saved out from that nation.

    N.T. Christians (a remnant saved out of all the nations of the world) are also named "Israel of God". Galatians 6:14-16

    So . . .

    There is only one "Israel."

    There is only one Sovereign God.

    There is only one Christ.

    There is only one Savior.

    There is only one everlasting Kingdom of God.

    There is only one people to share in the inheritance of this Kingdom.

    There is only one Gospel.

    Hi Nang and the above , have no verses for PROOF , so lets have them ?

    If there is only one GOSPEL , explain how people were saved from Adam to MOSES , Rom 5:14 ?

    dan p

    Leave a comment:


  • Right Divider
    replied
    Originally posted by Nang View Post
    N/A

    What exactly do you think I am confused about?
    Pretty much everything.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nang
    replied
    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
    Your confusion is immense.
    N/A

    What exactly do you think I am confused about?

    Leave a comment:


  • Right Divider
    replied
    Originally posted by Nang View Post
    Israel was an O.T. nation, and "Israel" is also named as a remnant saved out from that nation.

    N.T. Christians (a remnant saved out of all the nations of the world) are also named "Israel of God". Galatians 6:14-16

    So . . .

    There is only one "Israel."

    There is only one Sovereign God.

    There is only one Christ.

    There is only one Savior.

    There is only one everlasting Kingdom of God.

    There is only one people to share in the inheritance of this Kingdom.

    There is only one Gospel.
    Your confusion is immense.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nang
    replied
    Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
    Peter is quoting scripture about Israel. Exodus 19
    Israel was an O.T. nation, and "Israel" is also named as a remnant saved out from that nation.

    N.T. Christians (a remnant saved out of all the nations of the world) are also named "Israel of God". Galatians 6:14-16

    So . . .

    There is only one "Israel."

    There is only one Sovereign God.

    There is only one Christ.

    There is only one Savior.

    There is only one everlasting Kingdom of God.

    There is only one people to share in the inheritance of this Kingdom.

    There is only one Gospel.

    Leave a comment:


  • Right Divider
    replied
    Originally posted by Nang View Post
    The ladder is symbolic of access to heaven and the throne of God, which the Seed and High Priest of God, Jesus Christ provides. All those chosen in Him are also a royal priesthood. I Peter 2:9-10
    Peter is quoting scripture about Israel. Exodus 19

    Leave a comment:


  • Nang
    replied
    Originally posted by Jeff Wickham View Post
    It is clear that Jesus is both the ultimate fulfillment of the promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob of a coming "seed" (Gal. 3:16), and He is the reality to which Jacob's ladder pointed (Gen. 28:12; John 1:50-51). Zooming in on the seed, it is clear that it represents not just Jesus, but also those who are members of His body (Gal. 3:26-29).

    It seems that the questions in the previous couple of posts really revolve around whether the ladder also represents both Jesus and those who believe in Him. The function of the ladder was to connect heaven and earth, and to facilitate God's blessings coming to the world. I believe the evidence is overwhelming that people participate with Jesus in these functions. Here are some evidences:

    1. The Old Testament sanctuary service was a symbol of things to come (Heb. 8:2-5). The priests in the temple assisted the high priest in helping the common people offer their sacrifices (Lev. 1-4, etc). The high priest represented Jesus (Heb. 4:14), and the regular priests represented believers (1 Pet. 2:5-9; Rev. 1:6). Therefore, it was foreshadowed in the Old Testament sanctuary service that in the reality, believers would participate with Christ in helping bring people into connection with God.
    2. Christ committed to Peter (and the other disciples) the keys of the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 16:19). These keys are Jesus in the form of His words (John 6:53, 63). When believers share these words, they open up heaven for other people. When they withhold these words, they shut up access to heaven.
    3. Christ gave the disciples authority on earth to forgive sins (John 20:23). Forgiveness of sins happens, not by simply telling people they are forgiven, but by connecting them with the way of life that leads to salvation. People are forgiven by receiving the life of Christ into their own lives - Jesus, in the form of His words (John 1:12, 14).

    From these evidences it can be seen that believers do participate with Jesus in connecting people with God and facilitating His blessings coming to those around them. Since they perform the same function as the ladder in Jacob's dream, I believe it is safe to say they are part of it.
    The ladder is symbolic of access to heaven and the throne of God, which the Seed and High Priest of God, Jesus Christ provides. All those chosen in Him are also a royal priesthood. I Peter 2:9-10

    Leave a comment:

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