Blaming the chaff for being chaff

[Right Divider]

[MENTION=20360]Winston Smith[/MENTION]

Perhaps, instead of beating around the bush, you could clearly state what you're getting at and we can then compare it with scripture.

 

[Winston Smith]

Alive to God, if what Paul says is any indication.

I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. - Romans 7:9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans7:9&version=NKJV

Ok. I mean, does that answer my question, man? I can hear someone saying it's not a straight answer to a straight question. Something not oblique or aloof?

Someone chooses to be evil. Ok, before they chose to be evil, were they evil? Good? Neutral? Not trying to gitcha. I know this is the internet and you have no way of knowing whose on the other end - you only have my word here I reckon.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Ok. I mean, does that answer my question,

Yes. If it didn't, I wouldn't have quoted it.

man?

:AMR:

I can hear someone saying it's not a straight answer to a straight question. Something not oblique or aloof?

Are you high?

If so, please come back when you're sober, so that we can discuss the Bible like civilized people.

Someone chooses to be evil. Ok, before they chose to be evil, were they evil? Good? Neutral?

Try innocent of sin.

Like I said, "alive to God."

Not trying to gitcha.

Huh? :AMR:

Speak like a normal, civilized human being, please.

I know this is the internet

And yet, regardless, truth remains truth.

and you have no way of knowing whose on the other end -

I honestly don't care who you are, so long as your arguments are rational.

you only have my word here I reckon.

Speak straight and there won't be any problems.

 

[Winston Smith]

[MENTION=20360]Winston Smith[/MENTION]

Perhaps, instead of beating around the bush, you could clearly state what you're getting at and we can then compare it with scripture.

Ok. Suppose you ask someone "Was Jesus a real person or just made up?" and that person says, "Welp, I have to say I just don't know, I've never been able to figure that one out".

What do you say is going to happen to that person?

 

[Right Divider]

Ok. Suppose you ask someone "Was Jesus a real person or just made up?" and that person says, "Welp, I have to say I just don't know, I've never been able to figure that one out".

What do you say is going to happen to that person?

So you're just going to continue to beat around the bush and ask leading questions?

It appears that you're afraid to expose your beliefs about the scripture to an examination by others.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Someone chooses to be evil. Ok, before they chose to be evil, were they evil? Good? Neutral?

Each one of us living people is somewhere on our path through life.
A few of us have chosen to walk on a purely righteous path.
A few of us have chosen to walk on a purely wicked path.
Most of us wander back and forth between a righteous path and a wicked path and think we are doing good.
As long as we live, there will always be a way to change our path from a wicked path to a righteous path and from a righteous path to a wicked path.
Every day we face hundreds of choices on which path to walk on and it is where we are at the end of our lives that determines our ultimate destination.

 

[Winston Smith]

Each one of us living people is somewhere on our path through life.
A few of us have chosen to walk on a purely righteous path.
A few of us have chosen to walk on a purely wicked path.
Most of us wander back and forth between a righteous path and a wicked path and think we are doing good.
As long as we live, there will always be a way to change our path from a wicked path to a righteous path and from a righteous path to a wicked path.
Every day we face hundreds of choices on which path to walk on and it is where we are at the end of our lives that determines our ultimate destination.

So consider the person who made the bad choice. What made them do that?

 

[genuineoriginal]

So consider the person who made the bad choice. What made them do that?

Why are you trying to make the person who made "the bad choice" into a victim of some external force when the person had the free-will to make either "the bad choice" or "a good choice" at many points in the process of making that choice?

 

[Winston Smith]

Why are you trying to make the person who made "the bad choice" into a victim of some external force when the person had the free-will to make either "the bad choice" or "a good choice" at many points in the process of making that choice?

I'm not trying to do anything. You're utterly wrong about that so maybe it will save time and energy to not try to read my mind.

So is it your answer, then, that the person decided themselves to make the wrong choice? I mean that's pretty much how I imagined it. I wasn't picturing anyone holding them at gun point.

And so there they are deciding to make the wrong decision. What would you say led up to that? Why did they make that choice?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Why did they make that choice?

Because they had the ability to, and decided to make that choice in that way.

That's it.

Quit obfuscating and make your argument already.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I'm not trying to do anything. You're utterly wrong about that so maybe it will save time and energy to not try to read my mind.

You made the bad choice of hiding your agenda, what made you make that bad choice?

So is it your answer, then, that the person decided themselves to make the wrong choice? I mean that's pretty much how I imagined it. I wasn't picturing anyone holding them at gun point.

And so there they are deciding to make the wrong decision. What would you say led up to that?

You seem to have missed it, even though it was in my post.
Here it is again, and I highlighted the relevant point that answers your question about what led up to that choice.

the person had the free-will to make either "the bad choice" or "a good choice" at many points in the process of making that choice

Why did they make that choice?

Making a bad choice usually comes from making a series of small choices that leads up to the bad choice.
And don't try to make this into another version of Zeno's Dichotomy paradox.

Spoiler

Dichotomy paradox That which is in locomotion must arrive at the half-way stage before it arrives at the goal. — as recounted by Aristotle, Physics VI:9, 239b10​ Suppose Homer wishes to walk to the end of a path. Before he can get there, he must get halfway there. Before he can get halfway there, he must get a quarter of the way there. Before traveling a quarter, he must travel one-eighth; before an eighth, one-sixteenth; and so on. This description requires one to complete an infinite number of tasks, which Zeno maintains is an impossibility.

​

Making a bad choice is usually the end result of a series of small choices, most of which are neither good or bad, but these choices can lead the person to a point on his path where the bad choice holds more appeal to the person than a good choice.

That is why Paul told people to take every thought captive and think on good things.

2 Corinthians 10:5 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;​

Philippians 4:8 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.​

 

[Winston Smith]

snipped

Right, they had the free will to choose. So why did they choose the way they did? They made some small decisions, didn't capture their thoughts, etc. But you didn't. You made the right choice.

What would you say caused you to end up making the right choice and the other guy to end up making the wrong choice (which of course means, why did that guy do all those things you talked about that led up to the wrong choice, but you didn't)? He did one thing with his thoughts (by dint of having the free will to do so) and you did something else? What could be different about you two?

Thanks.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Right, they had the free will to choose. So why did they choose the way they did? They made some small decisions, didn't capture their thoughts, etc. But you didn't. You made the right choice.

What would you say caused you to end up making the right choice and the other guy to end up making the wrong choice (which of course means, why did that guy do all those things you talked about that led up to the wrong choice, but you didn't)? He did one thing with his thoughts (by dint of having the free will to do so) and you did something else? What could be different about you two?

Thanks.

Make your argument already, WS.

 

[genuineoriginal]

He did one thing with his thoughts (by dint of having the free will to do so) and you did something else? What could be different about you two?

You seem to be trying to make the person making the choice into a victim of external forces instead of a self-motivated agent who makes a free-will choice.

 

[Winston Smith]

You seem to be trying to make the person making the choice into a victim of external forces instead of a self-motivated agent who makes a free-will choice.

Nope. I think I said the phrase "free will choice" like 9 times. So do you have an answer or... if you don't that's fine. I don't, either.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Nope. I think I said the phrase "free will choice" like 9 times. So do you have an answer or... if you don't that's fine. I don't, either.

:readthis:

Make your argument already, WS.

 

[ok doser]

Ok. Suppose you ask someone "Was Jesus a real person or just made up?" and that person says, "Welp, I have to say I just don't know, I've never been able to figure that one out".

What do you say is going to happen to that person?

Artie?

 

[annabenedetti]

Artie?

Doesn’t even sound like him.

 

[ok doser]

Doesn’t even sound like him.

Yes and no - and this topic is one he could post obsessively about

 

[annabenedetti]

Yes and no - and this topic is one he could post obsessively about

Nope. He wouldn’t say “welp,” for starters, but there’s so much more.