Was the fall necessary ?

[Nanja]

The Fall was necessary as much as it was of the Eternal Purpose, which was purposed in Christ before the creation of the World Eph 3:9-11

⁹ And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

¹⁰ To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

¹¹ According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

There was an mystery from creation, in Christ Jesus, which involved the Salvation of the Gentiles, it was hid in God which created all things by Jesus Christ !

This mystery was even hid to Adam and Eve, and Adam and Eve would sin in accordance with this hidden mystery, a Salvation Mystery !581

Amen Brother !

The Fall was necessary, for in God's Eternal Purpose, sin was to come into the world through Adam.

For Christ Jesus, in the Everlasting Covenant of Grace Heb. 13:20, was already set up as Surety / Saviour Heb. 7:22 of all His Sheep John 10:11 / Church Eph. 5:25, as the Lamb Slain from the foundation of the world Rev. 13:8b.

So God's Eternal Purpose Eph. 3:9-11 was already set in motion for the Salvation of His Elect including Gentiles; men from all nations Ps. 72:17, because they were already, in the Mind and Purpose of God, Eternally Justified.

Rom. 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law [jew], but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham [Gentile]; who is the father of us all,

Rom. 3:24 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

Rom. 9:6-8

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


Now it's only by the Spirit of God, given in New Birth, that any can come to see [know, acknowledge, or perceive] these Glorious and Precious Truths John 3:3 !

 

[ttruscott]

Was the fall necessary ?

The Fall was necessary, for in God's Eternal Purpose, sin was to come into the world through Adam.

OR RATHER: Did HE propose that everyone could choose to accept or reject HIS marriage proposal by their free will, then created the earth as the prison planet for all sinners with a rehab centre for elect sinners and Adam was the first sinner to come into this system?


Your interpretation makes GOD go against every attribute HE has revealed HIMself to have: sin and evil are contrary to love, righteousness and justice to name HIS three main attributes and just like light destroys darkness just by its nature, so does HIS nature as loving righteous justice destroy evil just by being inexistence so, how can HIS Light and HIS love create evil? Since all sin can be accounted for by other means such as by the free will decison of HIS creation, why does anyone feel the need to blaspheme his goodness with any idea HE creates evi or needs it in any way?


GOD does not NEED evil for any reason, and HIS whole nature desires to destroy it so it is anathema to think that HE purposed evil because HE does need it and cannot have created a perfect marriage in heaven without it. My goodness...

 

[Nang]

GOD does not NEED evil for any reason, and HIS whole nature desires to destroy it so it is anathema to think that HE purposed evil because HE does need it and cannot have created a perfect marriage in heaven without it. My goodness...

Have you ever thought that in order for evil, the devil, death and hell to be destroyed it was necessary God manifest them?

Just as righteousness was forever established in the manifestation of Jesus Christ, perhaps the same was required to destroy the opposite.

 

[Cntrysner]

Man is responsible and accountable to submit his will to the will of God. That is the prime and perfect example Jesus Christ exhibited in His life on earth.

How did you submit to the will of God or explain how you were not required to do so?
You must submit and inorder for you to submit you have to freely choose that submission or it wasn't true submission at all. If you don't submit freely you will be rebellious.


What about Christ?, he gave His life so we can make a free choice.

That is your conclusion, but it is not Scriptural.

If it wasn't free, you are still in your sins.

Rom_5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Christ offered himself and a offer by definition requires a choice or it is not an offer.
Offer means to present or proffer (something) for (someone) to accept or reject as so desired.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Scripture says nothing about sinners "choosing" Christ. Just the opposite. John 6:44

Wrong, you're just blind to the fact.

Jesus Christ paid the death sentence, so that His elect might be legally pardoned and forgiven their crimes.

This displays your self righteousness in the fact that you say you have chosen nothing of your own and you can't even understand why you are saved. Why are others condemned to go to hell with no hope? Any lost sinner can choose Christ freely, right now, when they hear the gospel but you deny God's will and call it a lie. There is no hope for you because you deny hope for others. You should hit your knees and pray for those that you hold as noting but fodder for the flames and beg God to change His mind.

Error. God separated mankind from the Tree of Life altogether in Genesis 3:24.

Yes but at first Adam was allowed access to the tree of life. Adam, I think, did not desire the tree of life because he thought he already was alive but the tree was in the midst of the garden and he could have eaten of it.
The tree was denied access to for a time as God worked with His chosen people but now in Christ the tree is offered again by their fall and it is received by free choice or face the penalty of sin.

God did not stop working with Adam because of the fall, nor His people Israel, nor you even now until the moment of your death . Why would God continue to work with man if it was all set in stone since the beginning. Why now, would God offer the tree of life again?

Spiritual life is only regenerated in sinners through the power and presence of the Holy Spirit of Christ.

And the first Adam made the wrong choice . . .

God concerning salvation set before Adam good and evil because you can't have one without the other and the penalty of sin passed to mankind by Adam's choice. Now, in the midst of God's fallen garden is a tree, therefore choose Christ, now.

There is no offer from God to the Tree of Life. There is only one way of salvation and that is faith in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Life is found in Him alone. And faith to believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ comes by the mercy and will of God alone, to the glory of God alone.

Christ Jesus is the literal tree of life. You can't receive salvation unto eternal life without choosing Him as such, because he gave his life so mankind can have free choice no matter what anyone tells you and no one is denied.

 

[Nang]

How did you submit to the will of God or explain how you were not required to do so?
You must submit and inorder for you to submit you have to freely choose that submission or it wasn't true submission at all. If you don't submit freely you will be rebellious.

Any sinner is only justified by faith. Belief in God comes only because of regeneration worked in the sinner by the Holy Spirit. I was changed in mind and heart, from unbelief to belief, by the power of God. My will was changed. I went from rebel to believer as the result of a random reading of the Bible.

Submission to the will of God was subsequent to this miracle and submission to Him continues daily as I learn more and more about the will of God through further study. It is a process that has continued the last 47 years.

Submission to the will of God is the fruit of Sanctification. Believers are justified (forgiven) once and for all time by faith monergistically gifted by God alone. Believers are then monergistically sanctified unto holiness by God (through the indwelling Holy Spirit of Christ) for the rest of their lives. John 6:57

What about Christ?, he gave His life so we can make a free choice.

I never chose to believe. I just did after reading the Word of God. Jesus Christ vicariously died my death in order that I could live and believe. I don't see anything in all of Scripture about Justification requiring anything on the part of sinners, other than faith . . which of course is gifted to sinners by the grace of God alone.

If it wasn't free, you are still in your sins.

Rom_5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Romans 5:19 quantifies this verse to "many" in order for us to avoid the error of "Universalism" but it is important to note that God did the original condemning and God did the Justifying through the Son.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Christ offered himself and a offer by definition requires a choice or it is not an offer.
Offer means to present or proffer (something) for (someone) to accept or reject as so desired.

I believe Christ offered Himself to the Father on the cross, but I do not believe the Gospel message is conditionally "offered." The Gospel Truth of Jesus Christ is proclaimed, not "offered." Even the Latin wording of "offero" as found in the Canons of Dordt, translates "proclaim, or pronounce."

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

This verse would be prophetic if any soul ever chose life over death, but nowhere in Scripture does it teach that dead sinners escaped death through a free will choice.

Wrong, you're just blind to the fact.



This displays your self righteousness in the fact that you say you have chosen nothing of your own and you can't even understand why you are saved.

I do not understand or know why God chose to save me, and not others. I did nothing to earn my salvation. But I do know how I was saved, and it was through the grace of God alone through the life and power of Christ alone. John 5:21

Why are others condemned to go to hell with no hope?

Because of the original sin of the first Adam. He was created as Federal Head of the human race. Do a theological study of Christian Federalism some time, and you will learn about the contrast between the two Adams and the people represented by each. Also in this regard, reread Romans 5:14; I Corinthians 15:42-57

Any lost sinner can choose Christ freely, right now, when they hear the gospel but you deny God's will and call it a lie. There is no hope for you because you deny hope for others. You should hit your knees and pray for those that you hold as noting but fodder for the flames and beg God to change His mind.

I pray for all the unsaved I know and those I do not know, that God would give them ears to hear, and eyes to see the Gospel Truth of Jesus Christ. That requires regeneration and spiritual resurrection, because unbelievers are spiritually dead, and cannot hear nor see unless God gives them new ears and eyes with which to comprehend spiritual truths.

Yes but at first Adam was allowed access to the tree of life. Adam, I think, did not desire the tree of life because he thought he already was alive but the tree was in the midst of the garden and he could have eaten of it.
The tree was denied access to for a time as God worked with His chosen people but now in Christ the tree is offered again by their fall and it is received by free choice or face the penalty of sin.

Cite Scripture that teaches this conditonal "offer" of the Tree of Life.

God did not stop working with Adam because of the fall, nor His people Israel, nor you even now until the moment of your death . Why would God continue to work with man if it was all set in stone since the beginning. Why now, would God offer the tree of life again?

The Covenant of Redemption promised the Son the inheritance of an everlasting Kingdom and a promised people who would share in that inheritance of glory. Hebrews 9:15-Hebrews 10:10.

God concerning salvation set before Adam good and evil because you can't have one without the other and the penalty of sin passed to mankind by Adam's choice. Now, in the midst of God's fallen garden is a tree, therefore choose Christ, now.




Christ Jesus is the literal tree of life. You can't receive salvation unto eternal life without choosing Him as such, because he gave his life so mankind can have free choice no matter what anyone tells you and no one is denied.

Well, I consider the Tree of Life to have been literal only in the garden, and now symbolic of Life found only through faith in Jesus Christ.

Since God has caused me to believe in Him, I have assurance the gift is everlasting and will raise me to His presence on the last day. I will to do His will freely and I will to grow in holiness through His power and presence, but the promise from God of everlasting life in Christ is certain and sure, and not conditional upon any choices made by me at all.

But thank you for your counsel. I will consider it well meant and in good faith.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Have you ever thought that in order for evil, the devil, death and hell to be destroyed it was necessary God manifest them?

Just as righteousness was forever established in the manifestation of Jesus Christ, perhaps the same was required to destroy the opposite.

Then why manifest them in the first place!?

 

[Nang]

Then why manifest them in the first place!?

Why did God create the world?

Redemption was purposed to save physical created beings. It was necessary the Savior come in flesh to overcome physical death as well as spiritual deaths.

There is a biblical example (symbolic) of this theory found in Matthew 8:30-32 and elsewhere, when evil spirits were destroyed by the swines being run off a cliff into the sea.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Why did God create the world?

Yes, that is what I'm asking YOU, Nang.

Redemption was purposed to save physical created beings. It was necessary the Savior come in flesh to overcome physical death as well as spiritual deaths.

There is a biblical example (symbolic) of this theory found in Matthew 8:30-32 and elsewhere, when evil spirits were destroyed by the swines being run off a cliff into the sea.

Which doesn't answer the question:

Why did God create the universe in the first place if He was going to fill it with that which He hates?

 

[Nang]

Why did God create the universe in the first place

To manifest His attributes. Romans 1:20

if He was going to fill it with that which He hates?

To reveal the Sons of God and their powerful deliverance from bondage. Romans 8:19-21; Romans 9:-18; Exodus 9:16

What would we be if God had not created the universe?

 

[JudgeRightly]

To manifest His attributes. Romans 1:20

Were they not already? Did God have to create the universe to manifest His attributes?

In other words, why are you making the universe a necessary part of existence, when God is the only necessary part of existence?

To reveal the Sons of God and their powerful deliverance from bondage. Romans 8:19-21; Romans 9:-18; Exodus 9:16

What would we be if God had not created the universe?

Non-existent. Just like all the wickedness.

 

[Nang]

Were they not already? Did God have to create the universe to manifest His attributes?

In other words, why are you making the universe a necessary part of existence, when God is the only necessary part of existence?



Non-existent. Just like all the wickedness.

Beyond the biblical explanations given, I don't know God's ultimate purposes, but I suspect it is foolish to speculate overmuch about what is or isn't or try to imagine non-existence of the Eternal Christ.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Beyond the biblical explanations given, I don't know God's ultimate purposes, but I suspect it is foolish to speculate overmuch about what is or isn't or try to imagine non-existence of the Eternal Christ.

How about God created the universe because the most important things in all of existence are RELATIONSHIPS, and sure, the Trinity is the perfect relationship, God simply decided that He wanted to make creatures that He could fellowship with and that could fellowship with Him.

Do you think that that's a possibility, as opposed to your worldview where God predestined everyone and everything to happen for no reason at all other than "it pleased Him"?

 

[Nanja]

The fall was necessary in that through it God purposed to demonstrate His rich mercy and His Great Love for the dead in sin Elect Eph 2:4-5

⁴ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

⁵ Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

In fact He created them vessels of mercy Rom 9:23

²³ And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Amen, if not for the Fall, how else would God's Elect come to know of His rich Mercy toward them, even while being sinners? For if they weren't transgressors they wouldn't require His Mercy.

God's Vessels of Mercy are His Inheritance / His Heritage which denotes ownership: They're His property, that which He bought with His Own Blood Acts 20:28b: He owns them !

Micah 7:18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

 

[Nang]

How about God created the universe because the most important things in all of existence are RELATIONSHIPS, and sure, the Trinity is the perfect relationship, God simply decided that He wanted to make creatures that He could fellowship with and that could fellowship with Him.

Do you think that that's a possibility, as opposed to your worldview where God predestined everyone and everything to happen for no reason at all other than "it pleased Him"?

I think what you say is very likely, for the Covenant of Redemption decided upon before time within the Godhead, was a promise God would provide a people to share Christ's heavenly Kingdom.

Unfortunately, your interpretation of my "worldview" is a little off. One must ask what actually proves to please God Almighty. Searching for answer to that question makes for a continual and blessed search of the Bible for answers. I truly believe God does all things good and with high purposes that we have trouble imagining.

 

[Clete]

Quote me one Scripture that uses the words "choose" or "choice" or "free" that pertain to men willfully finding salvation and eternal life in Jesus Christ.

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; 20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days;

Joshua 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

Job 34: 2 “Hear my words, you wise men;
Give ear to me, you who have knowledge.
3 For the ear tests words
As the palate tastes food.
4 Let us choose justice for ourselves;
Let us know among ourselves what is good.

Proverbs 1:28“Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.
29 Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the Lord,
30 They would have none of my counsel
And despised my every rebuke.
31 Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,
And be filled to the full with their own fancies.

Proverbs 3:21 Do not envy the oppressor,
And choose none of his ways;

Proverbs 12:26 The righteous should choose his friends carefully, For the way of the wicked leads them astray.

Isaiah 7:15 Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16 For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings.

Isaiah 56:4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give [a]them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.

Isaiah 66:4 So will I choose their delusions, And bring their fears on them; Because, when I called, no one answered, When I spoke they did not hear; But they did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight.”

 

[JudgeRightly]

Deuteronomy 30euteronomy19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; 20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days;

Joshua 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

Job 34: 2 “Hear my words, you wise men;
Give ear to me, you who have knowledge.
3 For the ear tests words
As the palate tastes food.
4 Let us choose justice for ourselves;
Let us know among ourselves what is good.

Proverbs 1:28“Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.
29 Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the Lord,
30 They would have none of my counsel
And despised my every rebuke.
31 Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,
And be filled to the full with their own fancies.

Proverbs 3:21 Do not envy the oppressor,
And choose none of his ways;

Proverbs 12:26 The righteous should choose his friends carefully, For the way of the wicked leads them astray.

Isaiah 7:15 Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16 For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings.

Isaiah 56:4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give [a]them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.

Isaiah 66:4 So will I choose their delusions, And bring their fears on them; Because, when I called, no one answered, When I spoke they did not hear; But they did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight.”

:first:

 

[Nang]

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; 20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days;

Joshua 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

Job 34: 2 “Hear my words, you wise men;
Give ear to me, you who have knowledge.
3 For the ear tests words
As the palate tastes food.
4 Let us choose justice for ourselves;
Let us know among ourselves what is good.

Proverbs 1:28“Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.
29 Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the Lord,
30 They would have none of my counsel
And despised my every rebuke.
31 Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,
And be filled to the full with their own fancies.

Proverbs 3:21 Do not envy the oppressor,
And choose none of his ways;

Proverbs 12:26 The righteous should choose his friends carefully, For the way of the wicked leads them astray.

Isaiah 7:15 Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16 For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings.

Isaiah 56:4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give [a]them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.

Isaiah 66:4 So will I choose their delusions, And bring their fears on them; Because, when I called, no one answered, When I spoke they did not hear; But they did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight.”

My challenge was: "Quote me one Scripture that uses the words "choose" or "choice" or "free" that pertain to men willfully finding salvation and eternal life in Jesus Christ."

Not one of these verses pertains to, nor reveals any success of souls obtaining salvation and resurrected life in Christ.

They are commands from God for men to live according to the will of God, but in all cases, even the events recorded in Joshua, failed to achieve the goal. See Judges 9:1-21 for the results of the supposed compliance of the men of Shechem. They failed the command.

These passages simply reveal the responsibility of all persons to live according to the will of God, but no soul is able or willing to choose to do so. These verses universally condemn the human race.

 

[Cntrysner]

[MENTION=7292]Nang[/MENTION],

Your calvinism includes some at the cost of others. You still admit you don't know why God elected you over others. The bible teaches us that the saved are to judge righteously, thus we are chosen to be instructors of the gospel. Yet, the scripture says it is by the foolishness of preaching in order that God gets the glory. We can't hold that we can speak the perfect will of God for others even if we know it exist because of our salvation experience. So, with that understanding we can not say some are predestined without choice. We can only give our testimony of our salvation because we know it.

God is like a mother with child at her breast. She will for the sake of her child give all she has for her children, even her life if she is a true mother. Nature teaches us that at the least. A hen will give her life for her offspring. She will spread her wings when the hawk soars above while the chicks were to busy to notice the hawk. The chicks run for cover not because of the hawk but because the hen spread her wings. This hen by nature would never refuse any of her chicks.

What true mother would elect some at her breast over another because of another. The answer is, if she did, she did not love some of her children. If the chick chooses to take cover the hen will not put a barrier in their way.

Don't you see that what you believe is at the cost of eternal life of another. Calvinism is a form of self righteousness that requires some by necessity without a free choice have to be sacrificed.

 

[Cntrysner]

My challenge was: "Quote me one Scripture that uses the words "choose" or "choice" or "free" that pertain to men willfully finding salvation and eternal life in Jesus Christ."

The verses are there in scripture about choice. It is not by will, it is merely choice. Will implies on your part something that you must do for your will to be true. Forget about what one must do and think about choice. Choice does not require your will, you're just accepting the will of another, you don't have to perform anything.

Not one of these verses pertains to, nor reveals any success of souls obtaining salvation and resurrected life in Christ.

They are commands from God for men to live according to the will of God, but in all cases, even the events recorded in Joshua, achieved their goal. See Judges 9:1-21 for the results of the supposed compliance of the men of Shechem. They failed the command.

God's will is not based on you performing, it's just choice. that's how easy it is.

These passages simply reveal the responsibility of all persons to live according to the will of God, but no soul is able or willing to choose to do so. These verses universally condemn the human race.

That's where you missed it, you don't have to live according to God's will, all you do is choose how Christ lived according to God's will for us. It is that easy yet because it's that simple it's hard to understand.

Never say that anyone living is (will be) condemned because God is not finished until they are dead.

 

[Nang]

[MENTION=7292]Nang[/MENTION],


Don't you see that what you believe is at the cost of eternal life of another.

This is a bizarre and wrong accusation.

Calvinism is a form of self righteousness that requires some by necessity without a free choice have to be sacrificed.

There is no such thing as human choice determining or achieving salvation unto eternal life.