They shall never perish ! The security of Christs Sheep !

[beloved57]

John 10:15,27-30

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


30 I and my Father are one.

They whom Christ died for [His Sheep] they are secure and can never perish. This security mainly lies in the fact that Christ laid down His Life for them. No one Christ died for can ever perish. See Christ paid their sin debt to Gods Law and Justice, so they must have Eternal life.

Now even though Christs Sheep will become believers in their lifetime, they are no less secure from perishing as unbelievers as they are when they become believers.

Yes even as unbelievers its not possible for them to perish, for they are preserved in Christ until they are called Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Before being called by the preaching of the Gospel, they are preserved. The word téreó means:

I keep, guard, observe, watch over.

Their physical lives as sheep gone astray, enemies of God by nature, they are preserved unto their Gospel conversion unto Faith !

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

"... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

Charles Spurgeon !

Heavens ta' murgatroid! Blinded by the light, and you could knock me over with a feather! This is like there should be a Revelation Chapter 23, I do declare! Or maybe a much needed fifth Gospel According to Calvin, to finally set the other four and the Lord Jesus, Himself, straight? But I suppose not all is lost that the sweet Lord Jesus finally got Him some spokesmen and copy editors, albeit a tad late in the game.

At the risk of being serious, where there's Calvin, Spurgeon wasn't even a Five Point Calvinist flower child, was hardly even onboard. (Also, last I checked, Spurgeon was just a man, like Calvin, as hard as you may find this to believe, Matthew 15:9.) Since you clearly don't read a lot of scripture pre-teens can understand, you should at least check resumes, before you hire a pitchman. What you need is a name that's all-in with Calvinism, somebody onboard with you, that's as sure as you are it's really Calvin on the throne at the sides of the north, with R.C. Sproul at his righthand.

Really like your little faith cometh by unbelieving talk. It's so befitting a Calvinist's reasoning, almost as rational as the sovereignty sophistry, that doesn't really have anything conceivable to do with sovereignty, nor merely reconcile with common sense. That is, if you were to actually think about it, heaven forbid.

2 Timothy 4:1-4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Deuteronomy 11:26-29 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

John 3:14-16 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 5:39-40 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Acts 17:30-31 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all man, specially of those that believe.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

[Nanja]

John 10:15,27-30


[FONT=&]

They whom Christ died for [His Sheep] they are secure and can never perish. This security mainly lies in the fact that Christ laid down His Life for them. No one Christ died for can ever perish. See Christ paid their sin debt to Gods Law and Justice, so they must have Eternal life.

Now even though Christs Sheep will become believers in their lifetime, they are no less secure from perishing as unbelievers as they are when they become believers.

Yes even as unbelievers its not possible for them to perish, for they are preserved in Christ until they are called Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Before being called by the preaching of the Gospel, they are preserved. The word téreó means:[/FONT]
[FONT=&]
I keep, guard, observe, watch over.

Their physical lives as sheep gone astray, enemies of God by nature, they are preserved unto their Gospel conversion unto Faith ![/FONT]

Amen Brother ! It was Christ's Obedience in behalf of His Sheep that made them Righteous Rom. 5:19b, securing their Salvation even from Everlasting, or before the World began 2 Tim. 1:9, by His Life and Death on their behalf Rom. 5:19b as Surety Heb. 7:22 and Saviour; the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev. 13:8b, satisfying God's Law and Justice for His Sheep based solely on the principle and ground work of His Precious Blood 1 Pet. 1:19.

Rom. 5:9-10

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies [unbelievers], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


And scripture testifies to the fact that Christ was risen from the dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep:

Heb. 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,


Is. 53:6 - All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother ! It was Christ's Obedience in behalf of His Sheep that made them Righteous Rom. 5:19b, securing their Salvation even from Everlasting, or before the World began 2 Tim. 1:9, by His Life and Death on their behalf Rom. 5:19b as Surety Heb. 7:22 and Saviour; the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev. 13:8b, satisfying God's Law and Justice for His Sheep based solely on the principle and ground work of His Precious Blood 1 Pet. 1:19.

Rom. 5:9-10

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies [unbelievers], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


And scripture testifies to the fact that Christ was risen from the dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep:

Heb. 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,


Is. 53:6 - All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Amen Sister !

 

[MennoSota]

It's funny when a person quotes Hebrews 2 and doesn't realize that it destroys Arminian theology and universalism. Just read the text.
It says "Jesus tasted death for everyone" but then the writer clarifies who the "everyone" entails.
The answer is:
1) I and the children God has given.
2) The offspring of Abraham (the children of the promise).
The elect are whom the writer is addressing. He wrote to them and the everyone spoken of is the elect.

Hebrews 2:9-18 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering.

For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers, saying, “I will tell of your name to my brothers; in the midst of the congregation I will sing your praise.” And again, “I will put my trust in him.”

And again, “Behold, I and the children God has given me.”

Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. For surely it is not angels that he helps,
but he helps the offspring of Abraham.
Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God,
to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

 

[beloved57]

Many believe falsely that a true believer in Christ can finally be lost or can apostasize from the Faith. Im going to give a few scriptures that shows its false. Provision has been made that a true believer will not depart from God. Jer 32:40

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

 

[Nanja]

Many believe falsely that a true believer in Christ can finally be lost or can apostasize from the Faith. Im going to give a few scriptures that shows its false. Provision has been made that a true believer will not depart from God. Jer 32:40

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

By nature, no man has a heart that fears God Rom. 3:18, so it must be Given by Him to all His Elect or Sheep In Christ, in New Birth.

A heart that fears God is a New Covenant blessing wherein God promised to put His Spirit in them, His Chosen People Eph. 1:4. It's only then can they walk in the fear of God.

Jer 32:39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:

Ezek. 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Therefore it's impossible for any of these true believers to ever depart from God !

 

[beloved57]

By nature, no man has a heart that fears God Rom. 3:18, so it must be Given by Him to all His Elect or Sheep In Christ, in New Birth.

A heart that fears God is a New Covenant blessing wherein God promised to put His Spirit in them, His Chosen People Eph. 1:4. It's only then can they walk in the fear of God.

Jer 32:39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:

Ezek. 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Therefore it's impossible for any of these true believers to ever depart from God !

Amen Sister!

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[beloved57]

Those who Christ died for are made righteous Rom 5:19 and one day they shall live by Faith Rom 1:17 and the promise to them is Job 17:9

The righteous also shall hold on his way, and he that hath clean hands shall be stronger and stronger.

Thats like saying he will not depart from God !

 

[Gary K]

I would say that Jesus disagrees with your statements.

Mark 4: [FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]1[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] And he began again to teach by the sea side: and there was gathered unto him a great multitude, so that he entered into a ship, and sat in the sea; and the whole multitude was by the sea on the land.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]2[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]3[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]4[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]5[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]6[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]7[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]8[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]9[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] And he said unto them, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]10[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]11[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] And he said unto them, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]12[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]13[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] And he said unto them, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]14[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] ¶The sower soweth the word.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]15[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]16[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]17[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word’s sake, immediately they are offended.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]18[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]19[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][SIZE=+0]20[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

In most cases the word finds entrance into the hearts of men. However the devil comes and takes it out of their hearts through the distractions of this world. Jesus doesn't say that those who give up on His word don't believe. He says they are affected by the cares of this world and lose their way. This means that there are believers who are lost, who have their salvation snatched away by life on this sinful planet and the illusions created by Satan.

Salvation is not saying the magical words and then once you're saved you're saved forever without a chance of losing your salvation. Jesus says just the opposite.

 

[beloved57]

I would say that Jesus disagrees with your statements.



In most cases the word finds entrance into the hearts of men. However the devil comes and takes it out of their hearts through the distractions of this world. Jesus doesn't say that those who give up on His word don't believe. He says they are affected by the cares of this world and lose their way. This means that there are believers who are lost, who have their salvation snatched away by life on this sinful planet and the illusions created by Satan.

Salvation is not saying the magical words and then once you're saved you're saved forever without a chance of losing your salvation. Jesus says just the opposite.

I dont think you paid attention to any of my post points.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[Gary K]

I dont think you paid attention to any of my post points.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

So, I'm to believe you don't believe the title of this thread? http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...never-perish-!-The-security-of-Christs-Sheep-!

Nowhere in Jesus' parable did he say the belief held for varying lengths of time by those from whom the devil steals their salvation is not authentic, saving faith. He says their faith is stolen from them and/or crushed by the cares and distractions of life on earth and that is why they are lost. He doesn't even come close to saying their faith isn't real while they hold to it for they buy into the word of God. They believe it.

 

[beloved57]

So, I'm to believe you don't believe the title of this thread? http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...never-perish-!-The-security-of-Christs-Sheep-!

Nowhere in Jesus' parable did he say the belief held for varying lengths of time by those from whom the devil steals their salvation is not authentic, saving faith. He says their faith is stolen from them and/or crushed by the cares and distractions of life on earth and that is why they are lost. He doesn't even come close to saying their faith isn't real while they hold to it for they buy into the word of God. They believe it.

You definitely have not paid attention

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[Nanja]

Those who Christ died for are made righteous Rom 5:19 and one day they shall live by Faith Rom 1:17 and the promise to them is Job 17:9

[FONT="]The [/FONT]righteous also shall hold on his way, and he that hath clean hands shall be stronger and stronger.

Thats like saying he will not depart from God !

Amen Brother ! Paul is teaching in Rom. 5:19 that because of Christ's active and passive Obedience on behalf of His Spiritual Seed Chosen in Him Eph. 1:4, that God does Impute to every one of them a perfect Righteousness; making them Just in His sight. And so, the Promise is that the Just shall Live by Faith Rom. 1:17 which is given them in New Birth Gal. 5:22.

Therefore, these made Righteous shall hold on their way Job 17:9; that is persevere in the True Way, because they have been Born of God !

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother ! Paul is teaching in Rom. 5:19 that because of Christ's active and passive Obedience on behalf of His Spiritual Seed Chosen in Him Eph. 1:4, that God does Impute to every one of them a perfect Righteousness; making them Just in His sight. And so, the Promise is that the Just shall Live by Faith Rom. 1:17 which is given them in New Birth Gal. 5:22.

Therefore, these made Righteous shall hold on their way Job 17:9; that is persevere in the True Way, because they have been Born of God !

Absolutely Sister!

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[beloved57]

Scripture states that believers in Christ shall be confirmed unto the end 1 Cor 1:7-9

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Its based upon Gods Faithfulness not the believers !

 

[Nanja]

Scripture states that believers in Christ shall be confirmed unto the end 1 Cor 1:7-9

[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]7 [/B][/FONT]So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT="][B][FONT=Arial][B]9 [/B][/FONT]God is faithful,[/B] by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

[COLOR="#006400"]Its based upon Gods Faithfulness not the believers ![/FONT][/COLOR]

Exactly Brother, it is God's Faithfulness alone that shall confirm unto the end all His Elect or Sheep Christ gave Himself for; those who were Chosen in Him to be holy and blameless Eph. 1:4, until that Great Day of our Lord Jesus Christ !

 

[beloved57]

Another passage which states God will preserve His People blameless until the Coming of the Lord. Its based upon His Faithfulness, not the creatures.

1 Thess 5:22-24

22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

 

[Nanja]

Another passage which states God will preserve His People blameless until the Coming of the Lord. Its based upon His Faithfulness, not the creatures.

1 Thess 5:22-24

[FONT=&]22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.[/FONT]

Those Christ died for to Save from their sins Mat. 1:21, they are preserved blameless, kept by God from falling away Phil. 1:6.

So to them He isn't an angry God, but the God of Peace through Christ's Blood shed on their behalf [Sheep] John 10:11,15, and are kept from falling away Jude 1:24; preserved faultless / blameless 1 Thes. 5:23 to that Blessed Day of His Coming, based on Him Faithfully shedding His Blood Rom. 5:9-10 for them.

So being preserved blameless has absolutely nothing at all to do with the creatures exercising their own faith; accepting Christ, etc., for these are merely works of the flesh that cannot please God Rom. 8:8.

 

[DAN P]

John 10:15,27-30


[FONT=&]

They whom Christ died for [His Sheep] they are secure and can never perish. This security mainly lies in the fact that Christ laid down His Life for them. No one Christ died for can ever perish. See Christ paid their sin debt to Gods Law and Justice, so they must have Eternal life.

Now even though Christs Sheep will become believers in their lifetime, they are no less secure from perishing as unbelievers as they are when they become believers.

Yes even as unbelievers its not possible for them to perish, for they are preserved in Christ until they are called Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Before being called by the preaching of the Gospel, they are preserved. The word téreó means:[/FONT]
[FONT=&]
I keep, guard, observe, watch over.

Their physical lives as sheep gone astray, enemies of God by nature, they are preserved unto their Gospel conversion unto Faith ![/FONT]

Hi and sheep are not very smart !!

Like many you will never see that CONTEXT MATTERS !!

Why in John 10:28 is the Greek verb MAN PLUCK / HARPAZO out of Christ in the Greek FUTURE TENSE ??

Calvinist never will see A NEAR VIEW or a FAR VIEW and when explained are also BLINDED !!

We ARE/ESTE a verb in the Greek PRESENT TENSE which Calvinist will never see !!

In the B O C all believers are part of Christ and many are PART of Christ HAND and and will never can be PLUCKED OUT for the B O C IS THE HAND !!

dan p