JOHN 3:14 LIFTED UP

[TrevorL]

Greetings Right Divider,

It doesn't matter, he doesn't listen anyway.

Instead of these types of comments, why not join in the discussion. I would be interested in how you understand Psalm 110:1 and its various quotations and expositions in the NT. It was certainly part of the Apostolic teaching to explain the position and status of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I have not yet encountered a reasonable explanation of this by a Trinitarian. For example, do you distinguish between the two words translated LORD and Lord in Psalm 110:1? How do you understand Acts 2:34-36? Has God made or appointed Jesus as Lord? I do not care if you listen to me, but I am concerned if you do not listen to the Scripture and its teachings.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[DougE]

Greetings again DougE, He is a very specially prepared man:
Psalm 80:17 (KJV): Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.

There are two OT words translated “Lord” or “LORD”. One of these usually represented by “LORD” is the Name of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father. The other represents lord, master, ruler. These two different words occur in one of the most frequently quoted and expounded passages in the NT, Psalm 110:1 and an important exposition is in the following:
Acts 2:34–36 (KJV): 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
This speaks of the righteousness of God. Is it just or righteous to punish the innocent and let the guilty go free? If Jesus appeased God in being our substitute and taking the punishment for our sins, why do others suffer, such as Abel, Job, and even after the crucifixion Paul and Peter? Was God’s anger still simmering or is this part of a larger perspective of why the faithful suffer? If Jesus has taken the punishment for our sins, how can it be said that our sins have been forgiven, if they are already paid for?

My first concept to explain this subject is that Jesus as a mortal descendant of Adam was subject to death. In his death and resurrection He reverses the sentence of Genesis 3:19, as He was sinless, and God is righteous and merciful, He could not see corruption and return to the dust. I would be interested if you agree with this.

Kind regards
Trevor

Jesus is God and man

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[DougE]

Greetings again DougE, He is a very specially prepared man:
Psalm 80:17 (KJV): Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.

There are two OT words translated “Lord” or “LORD”. One of these usually represented by “LORD” is the Name of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father. The other represents lord, master, ruler. These two different words occur in one of the most frequently quoted and expounded passages in the NT, Psalm 110:1 and an important exposition is in the following:
Acts 2:34–36 (KJV): 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
This speaks of the righteousness of God. Is it just or righteous to punish the innocent and let the guilty go free? If Jesus appeased God in being our substitute and taking the punishment for our sins, why do others suffer, such as Abel, Job, and even after the crucifixion Paul and Peter? Was God’s anger still simmering or is this part of a larger perspective of why the faithful suffer? If Jesus has taken the punishment for our sins, how can it be said that our sins have been forgiven, if they are already paid for?

My first concept to explain this subject is that Jesus as a mortal descendant of Adam was subject to death. In his death and resurrection He reverses the sentence of Genesis 3:19, as He was sinless, and God is righteous and merciful, He could not see corruption and return to the dust. I would be interested if you agree with this.

Kind regards
Trevor

Hello

Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again DougE,

Jesus is God and man.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God as John 1:14 clearly states. You have not commented on Psalm 110:1, nor on the aspect on the subject concerning the reversal of the sentence of death. Possibly this is not part of your understanding of the One Gospel, because you do not believe that Adam and his descendants were actually sentenced to die, as you espouse the teaching of immortal souls.

Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Yes, there is only One Saviour, God the Father, and He has used His Only Begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ to accomplish this:
Matthew 1:20-21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
The Name Jesus means Yah’s Salvation, or He will be Saviour, showing that it is Yahweh, God the Father who is the prime mover in the process of salvation. Jesus is a separate being from His Father but the means whereby God has accomplished salvation. Isaiah's comments are in the context of idols which Israel were worshipping.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[DougE]

Greetings again DougE, Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God as John 1:14 clearly states. You have not commented on Psalm 110:1, nor on the aspect on the subject concerning the reversal of the sentence of death. Possibly this is not part of your understanding of the One Gospel, because you do not believe that Adam and his descendants were actually sentenced to die, as you espouse the teaching of immortal souls.
Yes, there is only One Saviour, God the Father, and He has used His Only Begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ to accomplish this:
Matthew 1:20-21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
The Name Jesus means Yah’s Salvation, or He will be Saviour, showing that it is Yahweh, God the Father who is the prime mover in the process of salvation. Jesus is a separate being from His Father but the means whereby God has accomplished salvation. Isaiah's comments are in the context of idols which Israel were worshipping.

Kind regards
Trevor

Hello

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Hereby in the above verse we are to understand begotten.

In regard to Psalm 110:1 .....Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear

Above we read where Christ is exalted on the right hand

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Jesus was not subject to death as Adam

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again DougE,

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Hereby in the above verse we are to understand begotten.

I appreciate your response. Could you suggest when “this day” occurred when Jesus was begotten by God, and thus became the Son of God?

In regard to Psalm 110:1 .....Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear
Above we read where Christ is exalted on the right hand

So you agree that Jesus has now been exalted as Lord and Christ and is seated at the right hand of Yahweh, the One God, God the Father. Thus the two words translated LORD and Lord show the distinction between Yahweh and the Son of God.

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Jesus was not subject to death as Adam

He was subject to death as he died, but the grave could not hold him because he had never sinned, and thus God raised him from the dead. In this process the sentence proclaimed in Genesis 3:19 was reversed in Jesus, thus opening the way of life to all those who affectionately believe in what has been accomplished in the suffering, crucifixion, death and resurrection, and identify with this death and resurrection by baptism in water. Jesus was our representative, not our substitute. We still suffer and die, but wait for the return of Christ to raise the dead and give the faithful everlasting life in the Kingdom of God upon the earth.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[DougE]

Greetings again DougE, I appreciate your response. Could you suggest when “this day” occurred when Jesus was begotten by God, and thus became the Son of God?
So you agree that Jesus has now been exalted as Lord and Christ and is seated at the right hand of Yahweh, the One God, God the Father. Thus the two words translated LORD and Lord show the distinction between Yahweh and the Son of God.
He was subject to death as he died, but the grave could not hold him because he had never sinned, and thus God raised him from the dead. In this process the sentence proclaimed in Genesis 3:19 was reversed in Jesus, thus opening the way of life to all those who affectionately believe in what has been accomplished in the suffering, crucifixion, death and resurrection, and identify with this death and resurrection by baptism in water. Jesus was our representative, not our substitute. We still suffer and die, but wait for the return of Christ to raise the dead and give the faithful everlasting life in the Kingdom of God upon the earth.

Kind regards
Trevor

Hello
Jesus didn't become the Son of God he is the Son of God.
Acts 13:33 and Psalm 2:7 seems to indicate in saying this day, begotten refers to the resurrection of Christ.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again DougE,

Jesus didn't become the Son of God he is the Son of God.
Acts 13:33 and Psalm 2:7 seems to indicate in saying this day, begotten refers to the resurrection of Christ.

I believe that he became the Son of God when he was conceived and born and the first use of the term "the only begotten of the Father" applies to this process John 1:14, Matthew 1:20-21 (refer KJV margin "conceived = Gr. begotten"), Luke 1:34-35, John 3:16. This is when Jesus became the Son of God, as he did not exist before he was conceived and born. There is only one God the Father. Jesus was born again to eternal life when God raised him from the dead Romans 1:1-4, and the term begotten seems to be applied to this process in Acts 13:33 and Psalm 2:7 as you state.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[DougE]

Greetings again DougE,I believe that he became the Son of God when he was conceived and born and the first use of the term "the only begotten of the Father" applies to this process John 1:14, Matthew 1:20-21 (refer KJV margin "conceived = Gr. begotten"), Luke 1:34-35, John 3:16. This is when Jesus became the Son of God, as he did not exist before he was conceived and born. There is only one God the Father. Jesus was born again to eternal life when God raised him from the dead Romans 1:1-4, and the term begotten seems to be applied to this process in Acts 13:33 and Psalm 2:7 as you state.

Kind regards
Trevor

Hello
I must disagree
Jesus is God, as is the Father, as is the Holy Ghost, as is upheld in scripture; Jesus did not become the Son of God or come into existence as upheld by:
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Melchisedec was made like the Son of God and according to this passage it would mean he had no beginning of days as you say.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again DougE,

I must disagree
Jesus is God, as is the Father, as is the Holy Ghost, as is upheld in scripture; Jesus did not become the Son of God or come into existence as upheld by:
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Melchisedec was made like the Son of God and according to this passage it would mean he had no beginning of days as you say.

I have helped to make this thread a discussion on One God the Father compared to the Trinity. There are many other threads that have dealt sufficiently with this subject. The subject of Melchizedek is interesting.

Kind regards
Trevor