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  • Annihilationism, do the Wicked Perish

    Well lets take a look at what the Bible says will happen to the Wicked...

    Job 21:30 King James Version (KJV)
    "30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath."

    Psalm 37:10 King James Version (KJV)
    "10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be."

    Psalm 37:20 King James Version (KJV)
    "20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."

    Psalm 37:28 King James Version (KJV)
    "28 For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off."

    Psalm 37:38 King James Version (KJV)
    "38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off."

    Psalm 73:17-18 King James Version (KJV)
    "17 Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then understood I their end.18 Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction."

    Psalm 92:7 King James Version (KJV)
    "7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:"

    Psalm 104:35 King James Version (KJV)
    "35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the Lord, O my soul. Praise ye the Lord."

    Psalm 145:20 King James Version (KJV)
    "20 The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy."

    Proverbs 2:22 King James Version (KJV)
    "22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it."

    Nahum 1:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
    "9 What do ye imagine against the Lord? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry."

    Malachi 4:1King James Version (KJV)
    "4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."

    2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
    "8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

    2 Peter 2:6 King James Version (KJV)
    "6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;"

    2 Peter 2:9-12 King James Version (KJV)
    9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

    2 Peter 3:7 King James Version (KJV)
    "7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

    2 Peter 3:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
    "9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. "

    Revelation 20:9 King James Version (KJV)
    "9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

    Revelation 21:8 King James Version (KJV)
    "8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

  • #2
    Revelation 20:10-15 New Living Translation (NLT)
    10 Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

    The Final Judgment
    11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave[a] gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
      Revelation 20:10-15 New Living Translation (NLT)
      10 Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

      The Final Judgment
      11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave[a] gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.
      They will be separated from God forever and ever, it is the end of sin and sinners as they will be destroyed and perish. Take a look at the words of Christ Himself...

      Matthew 7:13 King James Version (KJV)
      "13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"

      Matthew 10:28 King James Version (KJV)
      "28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

      Matthew 13:40-42 King James Version (KJV)
      "40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
      42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

      Matthew 25:41 King James Version (KJV)
      "41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

      Luke 13:3 King James Version (KJV)
      "3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

      John 3:14-16 King James Version (KJV)
      "14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Hobie View Post
        They will be separated from God forever and ever, it is the end of sin and sinners as they will be destroyed and perish. Take a look at the words of Christ Himself...

        Matthew 7:13 King James Version (KJV)
        "13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"

        Matthew 10:28 King James Version (KJV)
        "28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

        Matthew 13:40-42 King James Version (KJV)
        "40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
        42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

        Matthew 25:41 King James Version (KJV)
        "41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

        Luke 13:3 King James Version (KJV)
        "3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

        John 3:14-16 King James Version (KJV)
        "14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
        No. In the end it will be for sinners as it is for the devil, beast and false prophet.

        Revelation 20:10 New Living Translation (NLT)
        10 Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
        He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

        Jim Elliot

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hobie View Post
          They will be separated from God forever and ever, it is the end of sin and sinners as they will be destroyed and perish. Take a look at the words of Christ Himself...
          you need to figure out the meanings of death
          otherwise you will always get it wrong but maybe that's your thing.


          There is
          1 spiritual death Mat 8:22
          2 physical death Mat 8:22
          3 there is alive yet dead Rev 20:12 (still existing)
          4 death as a place Rev 20:13


          here we have all 4

          Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
          Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
          Luk 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

          Abraham, Lazarus and The rich man all dead Physically yet existing .

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
            No. In the end it will be for sinners as it is for the devil, beast and false prophet.

            Revelation 20:10 New Living Translation (NLT)
            10 Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
            Take a look and study closely what scripture shows that happens to the wicked..


            Psalm 1:4
            The wicked are not so, But they are like chaff which the wind drives away.

            Psalm 1:6
            For the LORD knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the wicked will perish.

            Job 38:13
            That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, And the wicked be shaken out of it?

            Ezekiel 33:8
            "When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you will surely die,' and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require from your hand.

            Job 13:16
            "This also will be my salvation, For a godless man may not come before His presence.

            John 9:31
            "We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him.

            1 Corinthians 6:9
            Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

            Isaiah 48:22
            "There is no peace for the wicked," says the LORD.

            Isaiah 57:21
            "There is no peace," says my God, "for the wicked."

            Isaiah 3:11
            Woe to the wicked! It will go badly with him, For what he deserves will be done to him.

            Psalm 37:9-10
            For evildoers will be cut off, But those who wait for the LORD, they will inherit the land. Yet a little while and the wicked man will be no more; And you will look carefully for his place and he will not be there.

            Psalm 37:20
            But the wicked will perish; And the enemies of the LORD will be like the glory of the pastures, They vanish--like smoke they vanish away.

            Psalm 37:34
            Wait for the LORD and keep His way, And He will exalt you to inherit the land; When the wicked are cut off, you will see it.

            2 Samuel 23:6
            "But the worthless, every one of them will be thrust away like thorns, Because they cannot be taken in hand;

            Job 18:5
            "Indeed, the light of the wicked goes out, And the flame of his fire gives no light.

            Job 11:20
            "But the eyes of the wicked will fail, And there will be no escape for them; And their hope is to breathe their last."

            Job 21:28
            "For you say, 'Where is the house of the nobleman, And where is the tent, the dwelling places of the wicked?'

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Hobie View Post
              Take a look and study closely what scripture shows that happens to the wicked..


              Psalm 1:4
              The wicked are not so, But they are like chaff which the wind drives away.

              Psalm 1:6
              For the LORD knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the wicked will perish.

              Job 38:13
              That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, And the wicked be shaken out of it?

              Ezekiel 33:8
              "When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you will surely die,' and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require from your hand.

              Job 13:16
              "This also will be my salvation, For a godless man may not come before His presence.

              John 9:31
              "We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him.

              1 Corinthians 6:9
              Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

              Isaiah 48:22
              "There is no peace for the wicked," says the LORD.

              Isaiah 57:21
              "There is no peace," says my God, "for the wicked."

              Isaiah 3:11
              Woe to the wicked! It will go badly with him, For what he deserves will be done to him.

              Psalm 37:9-10
              For evildoers will be cut off, But those who wait for the LORD, they will inherit the land. Yet a little while and the wicked man will be no more; And you will look carefully for his place and he will not be there.

              Psalm 37:20
              But the wicked will perish; And the enemies of the LORD will be like the glory of the pastures, They vanish--like smoke they vanish away.

              Psalm 37:34
              Wait for the LORD and keep His way, And He will exalt you to inherit the land; When the wicked are cut off, you will see it.

              2 Samuel 23:6
              "But the worthless, every one of them will be thrust away like thorns, Because they cannot be taken in hand;

              Job 18:5
              "Indeed, the light of the wicked goes out, And the flame of his fire gives no light.

              Job 11:20
              "But the eyes of the wicked will fail, And there will be no escape for them; And their hope is to breathe their last."

              Job 21:28
              "For you say, 'Where is the house of the nobleman, And where is the tent, the dwelling places of the wicked?'
              you adhere to anihlationism. That is just not so. Our spirit is eternal.
              He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

              Jim Elliot

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                you adhere to anihlationism. That is just not so. Our spirit is eternal.
                How so, God never gave immortality to man, that is not scriptural, need to read the scripture and rethink that.

                The Wicked will not receive the truth and will perish...

                2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

                The Wicked will destroyed in the end like tares burned in the fire...

                Matthew 13:39-40
                "39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world."

                The Wicked will receive the reword for their works at the end, they are not in hell with some pitchfork wielding devil....
                Revelation 22:12
                "12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

                The Wicked will be burned up and nothing will remain, just ashes.

                Malachi 4:1-3
                "1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."

                The wicked do not burn forever, they will be consumed by the fire at the end and vanish like smoke....

                Psalm 21:9
                "9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them."

                Psalm 37:10
                "10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be."

                Psalm 37:20
                "20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.."

                Isaiah 1:28
                “And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed”

                The Wicked will receive the opposite of everlasting life and perish, or ceasing to exist....

                John 3:16
                "16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hobie View Post
                  How so, God never gave immortality to man, that is not scriptural, need to read the scripture and rethink that.

                  The Wicked will not receive the truth and will perish...

                  2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

                  The Wicked will destroyed in the end like tares burned in the fire...

                  Matthew 13:39-40
                  "39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world."

                  The Wicked will receive the reword for their works at the end, they are not in hell with some pitchfork wielding devil....
                  Revelation 22:12
                  "12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

                  The Wicked will be burned up and nothing will remain, just ashes.

                  Malachi 4:1-3
                  "1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."

                  The wicked do not burn forever, they will be consumed by the fire at the end and vanish like smoke....

                  Psalm 21:9
                  "9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them."

                  Psalm 37:10
                  "10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be."

                  Psalm 37:20
                  "20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.."

                  Isaiah 1:28
                  “And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed”

                  The Wicked will receive the opposite of everlasting life and perish, or ceasing to exist....

                  John 3:16
                  "16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
                  From gotquestions.org

                  Annihilationism is the belief that unbelievers will not experience an eternity of suffering in hell, but will instead be “extinguished” after death. For many, annihilationism is an attractive belief because of the awfulness of the idea of people spending eternity in hell. While there are some passages that seem to argue for annihilationism, a comprehensive look at what the Bible says about the destiny of the wicked reveals the fact that punishment in hell is eternal. A belief in annihilationism results from a misunderstanding of one or more of the following doctrines: 1) the consequences of sin, 2) the justice of God, 3) the nature of hell.

                  In relation to the nature of hell, annihilationists misunderstand the meaning of the lake of fire. Obviously, if a human being were cast into a lake of burning lava, he/she would be almost instantly consumed. However, the lake of fire is both a physical and spiritual realm. It is not simply a human body being cast into the lake of fire; it is a human’s body, soul, and spirit. A spiritual nature cannot be consumed by physical fire. It seems that the unsaved are resurrected with a body prepared for eternity just as the saved are (Revelation 20:13; Acts 24:15). These bodies are prepared for an eternal fate.

                  Eternity is another aspect which annihilationists fail to fully comprehend. Annihilationists are correct that the Greek word aionion, which is usually translated “eternal,” does not by definition mean “eternal.” It specifically refers to an “age” or “eon,” a specific period of time. However, it is clear that in the New Testament, aionion is sometimes used to refer to an eternal length of time. Revelation 20:10 speaks of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet being cast into the lake of fire and being tormented “day and night forever and ever.” It is clear that these three are not “extinguished” by being cast into the lake of fire. Why would the fate of the unsaved be any different (Revelation 20:14-15)? The most convincing evidence for the eternality of hell is Matthew 25:46, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” In this verse, the same Greek word is used to refer to the destiny of the wicked and the righteous. If the wicked are only tormented for an “age,” then the righteous will only experience life in heaven for an “age.” If believers will be in heaven forever, unbelievers will be in hell forever.

                  Another frequent objection to the eternality of hell by annihilationists is that it would be unjust for God to punish unbelievers in hell for eternity for a finite amount of sin. How could it be fair for God to take a person who lived a sinful, 70-year life, and punish him/her for all of eternity? The answer is that our sin bears an eternal consequence because it is committed against an eternal God. When King David committed the sins of adultery and murder he stated, “Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight” (Psalm 51:4). David had sinned against Bathsheba and Uriah; how could David claim to have only sinned against God? David understood that all sin is ultimately against God. God is an eternal and infinite Being. As a result, all sin against Him is worthy of an eternal punishment. It is not a matter of the length of time we sin, but the character of the God against whom we sin.

                  A more personal aspect of annihilationism is the idea that we could not possibly be happy in heaven if we knew that some of our loved ones were suffering an eternity of torment in hell. However, when we arrive in heaven, we will not have anything to complain about or be saddened by. Revelation 21:4 tells us, “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” If some of our loved ones are not in heaven, we will be in 100 percent complete agreement that they do not belong there and that they are condemned by their own refusal to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior (John 3:16; 14:6). It is hard to understand this, but we will not be saddened by the lack of their presence. Our focus should not be on how we can enjoy heaven without all of our loved ones there, but on how we can point our loved ones to faith in Christ so that they will be there.

                  Hell is perhaps a primary reason why God sent Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins. Being “extinguished” after death is no fate to dread, but an eternity in hell most definitely is. Jesus’ death was an infinite death, paying our infinite sin debt so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). When we place our faith in Him, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. But if we reject God’s gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision.
                  He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                  Jim Elliot

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hobie View Post
                    How so, God never gave immortality to man, that is not scriptural, need to read the scripture and rethink that.
                    still mixed up about life & death I see

                    those who are alive need to be given life

                    Joh 10:10 The thief does not come except that he may steal, and kill, and destroy. I came that they may have life and may have it abundantly.

                    those who are alive need to be given life because they are dead

                    Mat_8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

                    the dead continue on even tho they are dead physically

                    Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
                    Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

                    hobie you need to declare the full counsel of God not just cherry picked verses

                    Dan 5:27 TEKEL, you have been weighed in the balances and found wanting;

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                      From gotquestions.org

                      Annihilationism is the belief that unbelievers will not experience an eternity of suffering in hell, but will instead be “extinguished” after death. For many, annihilationism is an attractive belief because of the awfulness of the idea of people spending eternity in hell. While there are some passages that seem to argue for annihilationism, a comprehensive look at what the Bible says about the destiny of the wicked reveals the fact that punishment in hell is eternal. A belief in annihilationism results from a misunderstanding of one or more of the following doctrines: 1) the consequences of sin, 2) the justice of God, 3) the nature of hell.

                      In relation to the nature of hell, annihilationists misunderstand the meaning of the lake of fire. Obviously, if a human being were cast into a lake of burning lava, he/she would be almost instantly consumed. However, the lake of fire is both a physical and spiritual realm. It is not simply a human body being cast into the lake of fire; it is a human’s body, soul, and spirit. A spiritual nature cannot be consumed by physical fire. It seems that the unsaved are resurrected with a body prepared for eternity just as the saved are (Revelation 20:13; Acts 24:15). These bodies are prepared for an eternal fate.

                      Eternity is another aspect which annihilationists fail to fully comprehend. Annihilationists are correct that the Greek word aionion, which is usually translated “eternal,” does not by definition mean “eternal.” It specifically refers to an “age” or “eon,” a specific period of time. However, it is clear that in the New Testament, aionion is sometimes used to refer to an eternal length of time. Revelation 20:10 speaks of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet being cast into the lake of fire and being tormented “day and night forever and ever.” It is clear that these three are not “extinguished” by being cast into the lake of fire. Why would the fate of the unsaved be any different (Revelation 20:14-15)? The most convincing evidence for the eternality of hell is Matthew 25:46, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” In this verse, the same Greek word is used to refer to the destiny of the wicked and the righteous. If the wicked are only tormented for an “age,” then the righteous will only experience life in heaven for an “age.” If believers will be in heaven forever, unbelievers will be in hell forever.

                      Another frequent objection to the eternality of hell by annihilationists is that it would be unjust for God to punish unbelievers in hell for eternity for a finite amount of sin. How could it be fair for God to take a person who lived a sinful, 70-year life, and punish him/her for all of eternity? The answer is that our sin bears an eternal consequence because it is committed against an eternal God. When King David committed the sins of adultery and murder he stated, “Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight” (Psalm 51:4). David had sinned against Bathsheba and Uriah; how could David claim to have only sinned against God? David understood that all sin is ultimately against God. God is an eternal and infinite Being. As a result, all sin against Him is worthy of an eternal punishment. It is not a matter of the length of time we sin, but the character of the God against whom we sin.

                      A more personal aspect of annihilationism is the idea that we could not possibly be happy in heaven if we knew that some of our loved ones were suffering an eternity of torment in hell. However, when we arrive in heaven, we will not have anything to complain about or be saddened by. Revelation 21:4 tells us, “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” If some of our loved ones are not in heaven, we will be in 100 percent complete agreement that they do not belong there and that they are condemned by their own refusal to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior (John 3:16; 14:6). It is hard to understand this, but we will not be saddened by the lack of their presence. Our focus should not be on how we can enjoy heaven without all of our loved ones there, but on how we can point our loved ones to faith in Christ so that they will be there.

                      Hell is perhaps a primary reason why God sent Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins. Being “extinguished” after death is no fate to dread, but an eternity in hell most definitely is. Jesus’ death was an infinite death, paying our infinite sin debt so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). When we place our faith in Him, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. But if we reject God’s gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision.
                      Take a look at what the fire of God did on Mt Carmel...

                      1 Kings 18:30-38 King James Version (KJV)

                      30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the Lord that was broken down.

                      31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the Lord came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:

                      32 And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed.

                      33 And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood.

                      34 And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time.

                      35 And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water.

                      36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.

                      37 Hear me, O Lord, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the Lord God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.

                      38 Then the fire of the Lord fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.

                      I don't think there is any question it consumed everything down to the dust....

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by way 2 go View Post
                        you need to figure out the meanings of death
                        otherwise you will always get it wrong but maybe that's your thing.


                        There is
                        1 spiritual death Mat 8:22
                        2 physical death Mat 8:22
                        3 there is alive yet dead Rev 20:12 (still existing)
                        4 death as a place Rev 20:13


                        here we have all 4

                        Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
                        Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
                        Luk 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

                        Abraham, Lazarus and The rich man all dead Physically yet existing .
                        So when you die, are you resurrected by father Abraham, of course not. That was a parable that Christ was using to teach a lesson, as the Jews all thought the rich were the ones who would be first and get the best places in heaven, and be foremost while the poor languished and were left out.

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                        • #13
                          So far there has not been a single scripture shown which specifically says - with the exception of the devil as the KJV has it - that the fate of the unsaved is to be tortured 24/7 for eternity. On the contrary, as has been pointed out a number of times, scipture actually specifically says that the wages of sin is death. But for some reason there are those here who want to interpret death as meaning eternal conscious torment. For some macabre reason they have to want the unsaved to be tortured for eternity because during their fleeting few years of life they didn't or couldn't meet the supreme being's requirements nor develop or have the potential to develop the right character needed to spend eternity with this supreme being. Consequently they try to interpret scripture to support that idea when there is no scriptural reason to do so. They could just as easily interpret the punishment to be death for eternity based on the scripture that says the wages of sin is death. And the last part of the verse seems to bare that out. The righteous receive eternal life which seems to contrast that with what the unrighteous will receive, i.e., eternal non-life.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rstrats View Post
                            So far there has not been a single scripture shown which specifically says - with the exception of the devil as the KJV has it - that the fate of the unsaved is to be tortured 24/7 for eternity.
                            why do you need more than one clear verse ?

                            here is another verse , now you have two
                            Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


                            On the contrary, as has been pointed out a number of times, scipture actually specifically says that the wages of sin is death. But for some reason there are those here who want to interpret death as meaning eternal conscious torment. For some macabre reason they have to want the unsaved to be tortured for eternity because during their fleeting few years of life they didn't or couldn't meet the supreme being's requirements nor develop or have the potential to develop the right character needed to spend eternity with this supreme being. Consequently they try to interpret scripture to support that idea when there is no scriptural reason to do so. They could just as easily interpret the punishment to be death for eternity based on the scripture that says the wages of sin is death. And the last part of the verse seems to bare that out. The righteous receive eternal life which seems to contrast that with what the unrighteous will receive, i.e., eternal non-life.
                            some people are willfully blind to the truth , like you.

                            There is
                            1 spiritual death Mat_8:22
                            2 physical death Mat 8:22
                            3 there is alive yet dead Rev 20:12
                            4 death as a place Rev 20:13
                            5 death as a person Rev 6:8


                            here we have physical death, spiritual death & death as a place.

                            Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
                            Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
                            Luk 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

                            Abraham, Lazarus and The rich man all dead Physically.

                            The rich man is also dead spiritually and in the place of the dead. Rev 20:13

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              way 2 go,
                              re: "why do you need more than one clear verse ?"


                              Where did I say I do? One verse will be fine. However, so far none have been provided.

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