Annihilationism, do the Wicked Perish

[k0de]

K0de,
re: "Matthew 25: 46. "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

I assume you believe the punishment sentence handed down is to be tortured 24/7 for eternity. If so, why do you want to interpret punishment that way when there is no scriptural reason for having to do that? The wages of sin is death, so why do you not want to interpret the eternal punishment to consist of eternal death which is the opposite of eternal life?

Hmm. Assume.

Nice try. But, What do you assume what was said from the mouth of Jesus?

 

[JudgeRightly]

K0de,
re: "Matthew 25: 46. "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

I assume you believe the punishment sentence handed down is to be tortured 24/7 for eternity. If so, why do you want to interpret punishment that way when there is no scriptural reason for having to do that? The wages of sin is death, so why do you not want to interpret the eternal punishment to consist of eternal death which is the opposite of eternal life?

Being annihilated isn't much of a punishment compared to eternal separation from God.

And no, it's not "torture." The Bible says "torment," not "torture."

 

[steko]

Right... to be annihilated would be as though one never existed, no consciousness, no memory... zilch.
It would be a salvation from torment.
Where's the punishment?

 

[way 2 go]

If you read in Revelation 20:13-14 it says 'death is cast into the Lake of Fire', and you can't hurt death or burn it, fire here is a figurative symbol of complete destruction.... something completely gone, forever. And that's exactly what the next chapter, in Revelation 21:4, states about death... It will be "no more".

it so simple a child can understand it

death is a place in Rev 20:13

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them,

The dead do not cease being dead even though they are standing and being judged .

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne,




There is
1 spiritual death Mat_8:22
2 physical death Mat 8:22
3 there is alive yet dead Rev 20:12
4 death as a place Rev 20:13
5 death as a person Rev 6:8

 

[k0de]

it so simple a child can understand it

death is a place in Rev 20:13

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them,

The dead do not cease being dead even though they are standing and being judged .

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne,




There is
1 spiritual death Mat_8:22
2 physical death Mat 8:22
3 there is alive yet dead Rev 20:12
4 death as a place Rev 20:13
5 death as a person Rev 6:8

And there will be a resurrection of both.


Acts 24: 15. and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

 

[rstrats]

k0de,
re: "Nice try."

Thank you. I think it was pretty good myself.



re: "What do you assume what was said from the mouth of Jesus?"

I have no reason to think that your NKJV quote wasn't accurate.

 

[Hobie]

it so simple a child can understand it

death is a place in Rev 20:13

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them,

The dead do not cease being dead even though they are standing and being judged .

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne,




There is
1 spiritual death Mat_8:22
2 physical death Mat 8:22
3 there is alive yet dead Rev 20:12
4 death as a place Rev 20:13
5 death as a person Rev 6:8

Lets look at Gods word..
Malachi 4:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
"1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."

The wicked receive their recompense in the Lake of Fire, and they “will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up," and we see who says it, "saith the Lord of hosts". All are punished according to their works or deeds.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
"14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

In the Lake of Fire the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch. Satan the root, and those who follow him, the wicked, are the branches. The full penalty of the law has been applied to the transgressors and the demands of justice have been met. The saints and the universe sees and declares that God is just in all He does, including the end of sin and sinners, and the earth is at rest.

Isaiah 14:7 King James Version (KJV)
“The whole earth is at rest and quiet: they [the righteous saints] break forth into singing.”

And the apostasy and corruption from Babylon is destroyed, as the saints say 'Alleluia'.

Revelation 19:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
"1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever."

 

[way 2 go]

And there will be a resurrection of both.


Acts 24: 15. and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

resurrected and still referred to as dead
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne,


the bible is consistent ,the unredeemed are dead even though they live.
Mat 8:22 And Jesus said to him, "Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead."

 

[way 2 go]

Lets look at Gods word..
Malachi 4:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
"1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."

The wicked receive their recompense in the Lake of Fire, and they “will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up," and we see who says it, "saith the Lord of hosts". All are punished according to their works or deeds.

your verses are not talking about the lake of fire ,it is talking about here on earth .
annihilationist are always using verses of the judgement of the
wicked here on earth to prove annihilation after the resurrection ,never works.
You're not rightly dividing the word of God which is leading
you to wrong conclusions .

Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."



no ashes, no walking in the lake of fire ,ever.

Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Hobie]

So far there has not been a single scripture shown which specifically says - with the exception of the devil as the KJV has it - that the fate of the unsaved is to be tortured 24/7 for eternity. On the contrary, as has been pointed out a number of times, scipture actually specifically says that the wages of sin is death. But for some reason there are those here who want to interpret death as meaning eternal conscious torment. For some macabre reason they have to want the unsaved to be tortured for eternity because during their fleeting few years of life they didn't or couldn't meet the supreme being's requirements nor develop or have the potential to develop the right character needed to spend eternity with this supreme being. Consequently they try to interpret scripture to support that idea when there is no scriptural reason to do so. They could just as easily interpret the punishment to be death for eternity based on the scripture that says the wages of sin is death. And the last part of the verse seems to bare that out. The righteous receive eternal life which seems to contrast that with what the unrighteous will receive, i.e., eternal non-life.

Very true, we have to understand that the wicked meet their end...
Matthew 25:41 King James Version (KJV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

and compare to the text here...
Jude 7 King James Version (KJV)
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The fact is that eternal fire does not mean a fire that will never go out as we find same expression is used in Jude concerning the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha. In this use for the fire of "eternal" "everlasting" many are applying modern definitions without reference to their ancient contextual usage and violates one of the most fundamental rules of interpretation.

Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning today, yet they burned with "eternal fire," and we are told that it was an example of something. So what example is it of, we see it in 2 Peter 2:6:

2 Peter 2:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

The eternal fire which brought Sodom to ashes is an example of what will finally happen to the wicked. So the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha will also burn the wicked in the lake of fire. This is a eternal fire as like Sodom and Gomorrha they will be no more as it will burn the wicked to ashes.

 

[Hobie]

your verses are not talking about the lake of fire ,it is talking about here on earth .
annihilationist are always using verses of the judgement of the
wicked here on earth to prove annihilation after the resurrection ,never works.
You're not rightly dividing the word of God which is leading
you to wrong conclusions .

Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."



no ashes, no walking in the lake of fire ,ever.

Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Now take a look at more verses and you find that the wicked will be burned up not burning forever in an eternal fire:
Malachi 4:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

Psalm 37:20 King James Version (KJV)
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

The punishment is everlasting destruction, they are separated from God for eternity by this fire and never brought back:
2 Thessalonians 1:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

You have to understand that it is the destruction, not the process that is forever. God could bring you back but this will be a separation for the ceaseless ages of time. Sin will be no more and neither will the wicked, and Satan will also meet his end..

Ezekiel 28:13-19 King James Version (KJV)
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.