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  • God hated Esau !

    Rom 9:13

    13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

    And even though here esau is an individual I believe hes representative of all individuals outside the purpose of God according to election Vs11. This hatered equates to being rejected of God

    Now why did God hate esau ? The scripture doesn't say, but it wasn't because he was a sinner or a depraved person.

    I know this because Paul had wrote:

    (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

    So Gods hatred and rejection of esau wasn't for any foreseen evil he would do, in fact the hatred was formed for him before he existed [not yet born]

    Gods hatred for him and all outside of gracious election, is simply His own Sovereign will from within Himself.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  • #2
    Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
    Rom 9:13

    13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

    And even though here esau is an individual I believe hes representative of all individuals outside the purpose of God according to election Vs11. This hatered equates to being rejected of God

    Now why did God hate esau ? The scripture doesn't say, but it wasn't because he was a sinner or a depraved person.

    I know this because Paul had wrote:

    (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

    So Gods hatred and rejection of esau wasn't for any foreseen evil he would do, in fact the hatred was formed for him before he existed [not yet born]

    Gods hatred for him and all outside of gracious election, is simply His own Sovereign will from within Himself.

    This article explains:


    When studying the Bible, it is critically important to always study the context of a particular Bible verse or passage. In these instances, the prophet Malachi and the apostle Paul are using the name “Esau” to refer to the Edomites, who were the descendants of Esau.

    Isaac and Rebekah had two sons, Esau and Jacob. God chose Jacob (whom He later renamed “Israel”) to be the father of His chosen people, the Israelites. God rejected Esau (who was also called “Edom”) and did not choose him to be the father of His chosen people. Esau and his descendants, the Edomites, were in many ways blessed by God (Genesis 33:9; Genesis chapter 36).

    So, considering the context, God loving Jacob and hating Esau has nothing to do with the human emotions of love and hate. It has everything to do with God choosing one man and his descendants and rejecting another man and his descendants. God chose Abraham out of all the men in the world. The Bible very well could say, “Abraham I loved, and every other man I hated.” God chose Abraham’s son Isaac instead of Abraham’s son Ishmael.
    https://www.gotquestions.org/Jacob-Esau-love-hate.html

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by betsy123 View Post
      Thanks for contribution. Did you understand point ?
      "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
      preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
      called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
      a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

      Charles Spurgeon !

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
        Rom 9:13

        13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

        And even though here esau is an individual I believe hes representative of all individuals outside the purpose of God according to election Vs11. This hatered equates to being rejected of God

        Now why did God hate esau ? The scripture doesn't say, but it wasn't because he was a sinner or a depraved person.

        I know this because Paul had wrote:

        (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

        So Gods hatred and rejection of esau wasn't for any foreseen evil he would do, in fact the hatred was formed for him before he existed [not yet born]

        Gods hatred for him and all outside of gracious election, is simply His own Sovereign will from within Himself.
        Try to show us where, in the Bible, you imagine it is said that God hated Esau WHILE ESAU WAS A BABY IN UTERO (let alone hated him at any time before that!) Have fun.

        I notice that you crassly travesty Paul's statement about Esau being "not yet born", so as to try to have Paul say, "before [Esau] existed":

        Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
        ....in fact the hatred was formed for him before he existed [not yet born]....
        And, that you burned yourself so spectacularly in doing so is exacerbated by the fact that, right there, in Romans 9, in v. 10, we can easily read:
        "but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac"

        In vv. 10-11, Paul very clearly specifies, by its two termini, a period of time, within which some particular event had occurred: that period between, on the one hand, Esau's conception by Isaac, in Rebecca's womb, and, on the other hand, his being born from her womb. There's not even a shred of a hint, anywhere in Romans 9:10-13, about a time prior to Esau's conception. Much less is there the slightest hint that a "hatred was formed" by God, against Esau, "before [Esau] existed". Surely, you can't really be so stupid as to imagine that Esau did not exist during the time between his conception and his birth, can you??

        Further, the particular event I mentioned, which occurred at some point within the period bounded by Esau's conception and his birth, was the event of God's saying unto Rebecca, "The elder shall serve the younger." Were you to actually read the text, you would see that there is not the slightest hint that, either before, or during, the term of Rebecca's pregnancy, it was said, either to Rebecca, or to someone else, "Esau have I hated". There is no mention, whatsoever, of God ever having declared, to Rebecca, "Esau have I hated." God's declaration that "I hated Esau" was part of "the burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi", in the 5th century, B.C., well over a millennium after Rebecca had died.

        Interesting to note, too, that you admit that, according to Paul, in Romans 9:11, Esau wasn't a sinner:

        Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
        Now why did God hate esau ? The scripture doesn't say, but it wasn't because he was a sinner or a depraved person.
        Why don't you, now, give some examples, from the Bible, of persons (if any) whom you would say God did hate BECAUSE he/she "was a sinner or a depraved person"?

        You blaspheme God by making Him to hate an in utero baby who is, as you admit, no "sinner or depraved person".

        Believe me, it is with great pleasure that I direct this reply to your dung heap of a post. I love to spotlight how you tear your own, anti-Bible heresy to shreds by your own manifest incompetence to even deal with what is actually written in the text of Scripture. I love the fact that I am (and others are) right, and that you are so egregiously wrong!
        All my ancestors are human.
        PS: All your ancestors are human.
        PPS: To all you cats, dogs, monkeys, and other assorted house pets whose masters are outsourcing the task of TOL post-writing to you (we know who you are )– you may disregard the PS.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
          Rom 9:13

          13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

          And even though here esau is an individual I believe hes representative of all individuals outside the purpose of God according to election Vs11. This hatered equates to being rejected of God

          Now why did God hate esau ? The scripture doesn't say, but it wasn't because he was a sinner or a depraved person.

          I know this because Paul had wrote:

          (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

          So Gods hatred and rejection of esau wasn't for any foreseen evil he would do, in fact the hatred was formed for him before he existed [not yet born]

          Gods hatred for him and all outside of gracious election, is simply His own Sovereign will from within Himself.

          Amen Brother ! God's hatred and rejection of Esau [non-elect] is contrasted to the Love He had from Everlasting for the World John 3:16 of His Jacobs [His Elect]; a Special, Chosen People Deut. 7:6-8, when He Chose them In Union with Christ; joined together with Him before the foundation of the world , to be Holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:4.

          Mal. 1:1-2

          1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi. 2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob
          My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
          when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post
            Try to show us where, in the Bible, you imagine it is said that God hated Esau WHILE ESAU WAS A BABY IN UTERO (let alone hated him at any time before that!) Have fun.

            I notice that you crassly travesty Paul's statement about Esau being "not yet born", so as to try to have Paul say, "before [Esau] existed":



            And, that you burned yourself so spectacularly in doing so is exacerbated by the fact that, right there, in Romans 9, in v. 10, we can easily read:
            "but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac"

            In vv. 10-11, Paul very clearly specifies, by its two termini, a period of time, within which some particular event had occurred: that period between, on the one hand, Esau's conception by Isaac, in Rebecca's womb, and, on the other hand, his being born from her womb. There's not even a shred of a hint, anywhere in Romans 9:10-13, about a time prior to Esau's conception. Much less is there the slightest hint that a "hatred was formed" by God, against Esau, "before [Esau] existed". Surely, you can't really be so stupid as to imagine that Esau did not exist during the time between his conception and his birth, can you??

            Further, the particular event I mentioned, which occurred at some point within the period bounded by Esau's conception and his birth, was the event of God's saying unto Rebecca, "The elder shall serve the younger." Were you to actually read the text, you would see that there is not the slightest hint that, either before, or during, the term of Rebecca's pregnancy, it was said, either to Rebecca, or to someone else, "Esau have I hated". There is no mention, whatsoever, of God ever having declared, to Rebecca, "Esau have I hated." God's declaration that "I hated Esau" was part of "the burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi", in the 5th century, B.C., well over a millennium after Rebecca had died.

            Interesting to note, too, that you admit that, according to Paul, in Romans 9:11, Esau wasn't a sinner:



            Why don't you, now, give some examples, from the Bible, of persons (if any) whom you would say God did hate BECAUSE he/she "was a sinner or a depraved person"?

            You blaspheme God by making Him to hate an in utero baby who is, as you admit, no "sinner or depraved person".

            Believe me, it is with great pleasure that I direct this reply to your dung heap of a post. I love to spotlight how you tear your own, anti-Bible heresy to shreds by your own manifest incompetence to even deal with what is actually written in the text of Scripture. I love the fact that I am (and others are) right, and that you are so egregiously wrong!
            I have given you sufficient scripture.

            Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
            "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
            preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
            called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
            a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

            Charles Spurgeon !

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post
              Try to show us where, in the Bible, you imagine it is said that God hated Esau WHILE ESAU WAS A BABY IN UTERO (let alone hated him at any time before that!) Have fun.

              I notice that you crassly travesty Paul's statement about Esau being "not yet born", so as to try to have Paul say, "before [Esau] existed":



              And, that you burned yourself so spectacularly in doing so is exacerbated by the fact that, right there, in Romans 9, in v. 10, we can easily read:
              "but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac"

              In vv. 10-11, Paul very clearly specifies, by its two termini, a period of time, within which some particular event had occurred: that period between, on the one hand, Esau's conception by Isaac, in Rebecca's womb, and, on the other hand, his being born from her womb. There's not even a shred of a hint, anywhere in Romans 9:10-13, about a time prior to Esau's conception. Much less is there the slightest hint that a "hatred was formed" by God, against Esau, "before [Esau] existed". Surely, you can't really be so stupid as to imagine that Esau did not exist during the time between his conception and his birth, can you??

              Further, the particular event I mentioned, which occurred at some point within the period bounded by Esau's conception and his birth, was the event of God's saying unto Rebecca, "The elder shall serve the younger." Were you to actually read the text, you would see that there is not the slightest hint that, either before, or during, the term of Rebecca's pregnancy, it was said, either to Rebecca, or to someone else, "Esau have I hated". There is no mention, whatsoever, of God ever having declared, to Rebecca, "Esau have I hated." God's declaration that "I hated Esau" was part of "the burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi", in the 5th century, B.C., well over a millennium after Rebecca had died.

              Interesting to note, too, that you admit that, according to Paul, in Romans 9:11, Esau wasn't a sinner:



              Why don't you, now, give some examples, from the Bible, of persons (if any) whom you would say God did hate BECAUSE he/she "was a sinner or a depraved person"?

              You blaspheme God by making Him to hate an in utero baby who is, as you admit, no "sinner or depraved person".

              Believe me, it is with great pleasure that I direct this reply to your dung heap of a post. I love to spotlight how you tear your own, anti-Bible heresy to shreds by your own manifest incompetence to even deal with what is actually written in the text of Scripture. I love the fact that I am (and others are) right, and that you are so egregiously wrong!
              God’s determination to save particular sinners, is founded upon the everlasting Covenant of
              Redemption established amongst Triune God before the foundation of the world; revealed through SOVEREIGN & UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION of souls in time according to the grace, will, & powers of God alone.

              John 17:24; Ephesians 1:4; I Peter 1:20
              "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

              " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
              Gordon H. Clark

              "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
              Charles Spurgeon

              Comment


              • #8
                It’s kind of crazy to think that God would hate someone, isn’t it?

                I mean, if you actually take the time to think something through before you just believe it to be true that is. Love doesn’t hate.

                But, to think that God hates is to think that God didn’t know what he was doing when he built this place. Like God wouldn’t know there would be stupid people and evil people in this world before he made it?

                It’s absolutely senseless. No builder builds without a plan.

                People hate people. God doesn’t hate people. But whatever, praise the lord and pass the ammunition.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Guyver View Post
                  It’s kind of crazy to think that God would hate someone, isn’t it?

                  I mean, if you actually take the time to think something through before you just believe it to be true that is. Love doesn’t hate.

                  But, to think that God hates is to think that God didn’t know what he was doing when he built this place. Like God wouldn’t know there would be stupid people and evil people in this world before he made it?

                  It’s absolutely senseless. No builder builds without a plan.

                  People hate people. God doesn’t hate people. But whatever, praise the lord and pass the ammunition.
                  Reprobation is a biblical truth. It cannot be denied.

                  All the sons of Adam are born at enmity against God. Human depravity is universal.

                  Only God's grace and determination to reverse this hatred He receives from mankind, saves some.

                  It is a wonder He shows mercy to any at all!
                  "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

                  " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
                  Gordon H. Clark

                  "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
                  Charles Spurgeon

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                    Thanks for contribution. Did you understand point ?
                    Yes.

                    The term "hate" that is used in the Scriptures, isn't to be confused with the human emotion of hatred.

                    A lot of non-believers quote-mine Scriptural verses as evidence that the Scriptures is full of contradictions. How can a hating God be a loving God, they point out.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      God knows the end from the beginning.

                      David said Psa 26:5 I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked.

                      When we look at the scriptures, we find Esau took women of Canaan, for wives, which was against Issac's instructions. From the children of Esau there came Herod the Great (sic} who tried to kill Jesus while he was still a baby. Many of the scribes and Pharisees at the time of Jesus were also of Esau's linage.

                      What did Jesus say to the scribes and Pharisees?
                      Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

                      The women of Canaan were obviously children of Cain and that must be why God hated Esau since God hates evil.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                        Rom 9:13

                        13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

                        And even though here esau is an individual I believe hes representative of all individuals outside the purpose of God according to election Vs11. This hatered equates to being rejected of God

                        Now why did God hate esau ? The scripture doesn't say, but it wasn't because he was a sinner or a depraved person.

                        I know this because Paul had wrote:

                        (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

                        So Gods hatred and rejection of esau wasn't for any foreseen evil he would do, in fact the hatred was formed for him before he existed [not yet born]

                        Gods hatred for him and all outside of gracious election, is simply His own Sovereign will from within Himself.
                        The phrase "to love and to hate" is a Hebrew idiom.

                        It means "to love more and to love."

                        You say it doesn't mean that, it means love and hate literally?

                        God said to honor your parents:

                        “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you. - Exodus 20:12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

                        But Jesus said to hate one's parents, else he cannot be His disciple:

                        “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. - Luke 14:26 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...6&version=NKJV

                        Did God contradict Himself?

                        NO!

                        Jesus used the idiom of love and hate to make a point.

                        Yes, we are to love and honor our parents, but our love for God should be so much greater that it should be as if we hated our parents in comparison.

                        So if we take love and hate as an idiom, and not woodenly literally, we can see that God loved both Jacob AND Esau, but God's love for Jacob dwarfed His love for Esau.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's the Greek word miseo and means HATE !

                          https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...gs=G3404&t=KJV
                          My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
                          when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nanja View Post
                            It's the Greek word miseo and means HATE !

                            https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...gs=G3404&t=KJV
                            So you think God contradicted Himself when he said we should really hate our family if we want to love God, in direct contradiction to God commanding us to honor our parents.

                            Do you also think that when someone says "let's hit the road," they mean to grab a sledgehammer and start pounding the road with it?
                            Last edited by JudgeRightly; June 15th, 2019, 10:50 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                              Rom 9:13

                              13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

                              And even though here esau is an individual I believe hes representative of all individuals outside the purpose of God according to election Vs11. This hatered equates to being rejected of God

                              Now why did God hate esau ? The scripture doesn't say, but it wasn't because he was a sinner or a depraved person.

                              I know this because Paul had wrote:

                              (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

                              So Gods hatred and rejection of esau wasn't for any foreseen evil he would do, in fact the hatred was formed for him before he existed [not yet born]

                              Gods hatred for him and all outside of gracious election, is simply His own Sovereign will from within Himself.
                              Romans 7:5-6. shows these two are conscience states John 3:6, 3:12, not two flesh and blood siblings, all of scripture is about the old man verses the new man Galatians 4:20-30, earthly becoming heavenly "minded" not two physical races of people, no jew nor gentile, male or female, Calvinist nor baptist or any other creed of men that believe the historical dead letter literally, and are waiting for an outside Saviour to come back as a flesh Christ that is in man asleep in ignorance 1 Cor 3:16.

                              Its spiritual history of one (pattern) man Adam and his flesh and spiritual states, that are good and evil Patterns of experience for all men coming onto this world John 1:9, John 3:13, unveiled at the end as Christ John 5:39, that all men move and have their being in Acts 17:28, God's will is all be saved/reconciled Gen 33:10, so your earthly minded creed based on dead letters is an Anathema to understanding that process from dark to light 1 Cor 15:44-45, will everything of old Adam be saved, no, but that's true of everyone born of flesh, like John the baptist you preach condemnation on those you perceive reprobates while you have special status with God as an elect man John 8:33, but that's only earthly based wind up until John the baptist, Matt 11:11, not the good news for all men that's spiritually discerned Galatians 3:3.
                              Trying to awaken the divine principle in the belly of the fish.

                              Comment

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