The Sheep were never goats, but always Sheep !

beloved57

Well-known member
The misconception these days from many people is that Christs Sheep, those He laid down His Life for Jn 10 were prior to faith or believing they were goats. Couldn't be further from the truth ! Nor was the Wheat ever a tare. Remember Jesus words Matt 13:12-30. Neither were the Children of God ever the children of the devil.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
The misconception these days from many people is that Christs Sheep, those He laid down His Life for Jn 10 were prior to faith or believing they were goats. Couldn't be further from the truth ! Nor was the Wheat ever a tare. Remember Jesus words Matt 13:12-30. Neither were the Children of God ever the children of the devil.


Amen to that Brother !

Mat. 13:12-30 taught by Jesus clearly demonstrates Two seeds are in the world:

The Seed of Christ [the Wheat], which were always the SHEEP.

And the seed of the devil [the tares] which were always the GOATS.

The Wicked Goats shall go into everlasting punishment Mat. 25:46a.

But the Righteous Sheep into Life Eternal Mat. 25:46b.

God determined the outcome according to His Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph. 3:11 !

Job 23:13-14

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.
 

Truster

New member
But before being brought into the fold they are lost sheep. Not geographically lost but having lost their innocence. "Adam, where art thou".
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Even though the Sheep were never goats, they were however at one time lost sheep. Remember the Parable Lk 15:1-6

Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.

2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

This Parable portion here applies to Christ who came to seek and to find and to save everyone of His Lost Sheep Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

See even though the sheep arent goats, they are naturally first in this world estranged and alienated from God like other lost people, the goats. Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Eph 2:2-3


2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

However because were Sheep gone astray, Our Shepherd finds us and puts us into a right fellowship with Himself and the Father 1 Jn 1:3

That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

While in a lost state by nature, we dont have this fellowship !
 
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Truster

New member
"While in a lost state by nature, we dont have this fellowship !"


Finally admitting that there is enmity between the lost sheep and The Almighty, but not the sheep that have been found.

Going to love witnessing you squirm your way out of this. AMR would be dancing.

Plenty of room for squirming down below so squirm away.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
"While in a lost state by nature, we dont have this fellowship !"


Finally admitting that there is enmity between the lost sheep and The Almighty, but not the sheep that have been found.

Going to love witnessing you squirm your way out of this. AMR would be dancing.

Plenty of room for squirming down below so squirm away.

This has always been my position. God never had enmity against the Lost Sheep, but the Lost Sheep had enmity against God. Col 1:21

21 [FONT=&quot]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled[/FONT]
 

beloved57

Well-known member
As stated earlier:

The Wheat was never a Tare, nor a Tare ever Wheat even though it may outwardly resemble.

Matt 13:24-30

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
Even though the Sheep were never goats, they were however at one time lost sheep. Remember the Parable Lk 15:1-6

[FONT=&]Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&]2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&]3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
[/FONT]

[FONT=&]4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
[/FONT]

[FONT=&]5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&]6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

This Parable portion here applies to Christ who came to seek and to find and to save everyone of His Lost Sheep Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

See even though the sheep arent goats, they are naturally first in this world estranged and alienated from God like other lost people, the goats. Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Eph 2:2-3

[/FONT]

[FONT=&]2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[/FONT]

[FONT=&]3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

However because were Sheep gone astray, Our Shepherd finds us and puts us into a right fellowship with Himself and the Father 1 Jn 1:3

That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

While in a lost state by nature, we dont have this fellowship ![/FONT]


Amen, it's only once the Sheep [God's Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23], are Found that they can have Fellowship with the Father and Son 1 John 1:3; being given a new nature, are quickened out of that enmity by the Spirit.

Eph. 2:4-5

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Col. 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
 

ttruscott

Well-known member
1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray: but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
Well, to return, one must have been there before, at least, according to the normal use of the word. Therefore, in this verse, it would be normal to infer that the sheep that had gone astray, were, at one time, part of the Shepherd's flock but had strayed away from HIS care. Since I am sure that the Shepherd was not negligent, the straying away from HIS care must have involved some rebellion.

Therefore, it is normally obvious that Peter is writing to some apostatized (gone astray) Christians (people of the flock). It is also normally apparent from context that what he was writing is intended for every new convert in every age since. Therefore, it seems normal that the Holy Spirit would have us believe that all of the Church has personally apostatized from Christ prior to their conversion in this life. Since we are conceived as sinners, it is easy to see that we apostatized from Christ before our conception and that is why we are sinners at our birth.

I think that Peter bore added witness to this fact in 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ ...which ...hath begotten us AGAIN unto a lively hope... Just when was the first time you were begotten by GOD? And when did you get unbegotten? Well, unless you are one of those earthly backslidden types, the only time such an un-begetting or rebellion could have taken place is prior to your conception. And since Peter is writing to the whole Church rather than to just the backslidden types, he must be referring to a pre-conception rebellion and the straying of HIS elect since that time, which straying or rebellion ends only upon conversion to obedience unto holiness to that Shepherd, that is, upon being born in Christ (begotten) again.

Peace, Ted
 

beloved57

Well-known member
1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray: but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
Well, to return, one must have been there before, at least, according to the normal use of the word. Therefore, in this verse, it would be normal to infer that the sheep that had gone astray, were, at one time, part of the Shepherd's flock but had strayed away from HIS care. Since I am sure that the Shepherd was not negligent, the straying away from HIS care must have involved some rebellion.

Therefore, it is normally obvious that Peter is writing to some apostatized (gone astray) Christians (people of the flock). It is also normally apparent from context that what he was writing is intended for every new convert in every age since. Therefore, it seems normal that the Holy Spirit would have us believe that all of the Church has personally apostatized from Christ prior to their conversion in this life. Since we are conceived as sinners, it is easy to see that we apostatized from Christ before our conception and that is why we are sinners at our birth.

I think that Peter bore added witness to this fact in 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ ...which ...hath begotten us AGAIN unto a lively hope... Just when was the first time you were begotten by GOD? And when did you get unbegotten? Well, unless you are one of those earthly backslidden types, the only time such an un-begetting or rebellion could have taken place is prior to your conception. And since Peter is writing to the whole Church rather than to just the backslidden types, he must be referring to a pre-conception rebellion and the straying of HIS elect since that time, which straying or rebellion ends only upon conversion to obedience unto holiness to that Shepherd, that is, upon being born in Christ (begotten) again.

Peace, Ted

The Sheep sinned in Adam. Adam was their natural head in the beginning, he was a Son of God Lk 3:38

38 [FONT=&quot]Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

[/FONT]
So yes the Sheep went astray first and foremost in Adam. But they were still Sheep Isa 53:6

6 [FONT=&quot]All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.[/FONT]
But not all men are Sheep !
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
The Sheep sinned in Adam. Adam was their natural head in the beginning, he was a Son of God Lk 3:38

38 [FONT="]Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of[B] Adam, which was the son of God.[/B]

[/FONT][/COLOR][B]So yes the Sheep went astray first and foremost in Adam. But they were still Sheep Isa 53:6

[/B][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial][B]6 [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the [/FONT]
[FONT="]Lord[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="] hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.[/FONT]
But not all men are Sheep !

Do you believe in faith plus works for salvation?
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
The misconception these days from many people is that Christs Sheep, those He laid down His Life for Jn 10 were prior to faith or believing they were goats. Couldn't be further from the truth ! Nor was the Wheat ever a tare. Remember Jesus words Matt 13:12-30. Neither were the Children of God ever the children of the devil.
There are sheep outside the Lord's fold. They're not goats, but they are frequently stubborn sheep who think that His fold is "bahahah-d."

Look for sheep who know they need rescuing, and pass over those who stubbornly refuse to enter (or reenter) the fold. They are those who neglect to hear the Church (Mt18:17KJV, cf. 1Ti3:15KJV). They are still sheep, and they will be saved 1st Corinthians 3:15 KJV.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Those who are Christs Sheep, which Sheep went astray in their natural covenant head Adam, since thy were Christs Sheep prior to being in Adam, having been chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4, it was Christs mission to recover them back to God. Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. Cp Lk 15:3-7

3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

So Peter credits Christ as the One who returns the Sheep. 1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. The word returned Peter uses here is ἐπεστράφητε which means:
  1. to turn to
    1. to the worship of the true God
  2. to cause to return, to bring back
Its also in the passive voice which means:

Represents the subject as being the recipient of the action. e.g., in the sentence,

So the Sheep are being caused to return ! They are being brought back to God. Now how was this done ?
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Jesus is the author of ringing them back to God. Hence we read in Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Notice as He takes the responsibility upon Himself, saying of the Sheep He Must Bring !
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
When Saul was doing the work of satan, was he a lost sheep, a goat or a child of the devil?
 

DAN P

Well-known member
This has always been my position. God never had enmity against the Lost Sheep, but the Lost Sheep had enmity against God. Col 1:21

21 [FONT=&quot]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled[/FONT]

Hi and your Col 1:21 and verse says who these [people are , EKKLESIA / ASSEMBLY , thr B O C and not the Nation of Israel !!

And verse 25 will be hard for a Calvinist to swallow , , the DISPENSATION !!

dan p
 
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