The false doctrine of the immortality of the soul (or State of the Dead).

[Hobie]

The Spirit is immortal, the Body and Soul are not.

The Soul can be destroyed...

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell"

Either way, the Spirit ultimately returns to God...

Ecclesiastes 12:7
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it"

Then Lazarus was taken from immortal back to mortal, that just doesn't work. Jesus told the disciples if you check:

Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, if he sleep he shall do well. Howbeit, Jesus spoke of his death; but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. John 11:11-14

The disciples were confused and thought Christ meant natural sleep, but He meant the sleep of death.
When Jesus go there He found that Lazarus had already been four days in the tomb. So talking to Martha, He tried to comfort her by saying,
'Thy brother shall rise again.' Martha saith unto him, 'I know that He shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.' John 11:23,24

Martha knew that life would be restored to Lazarus only in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus demonstrated through the resurrection of Lazarus that He was the One who could resurrect the dead according to His claim:

I am the resurrection and the life. John 11:25

Jesus is the one who resurrects and gives us eternal life, not ourselves. So that idea of the soul is not correct.

[Hobie]

In man, spirit and soul are one. "Soul" is the life-giving force. Animals have souls, and their souls do cease when they die. But since man's spirit and soul are one, it is grammatically acceptable to use either word.

QUOTE:

365 The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the "form" of the body:234 i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.

366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not "produced" by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235

367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people "wholly", with "spirit and soul and body" kept sound and blameless at the Lord's coming.236 The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul.237 "Spirit" signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.238

368 The spiritual tradition of the Church also emphasizes the heart, in the biblical sense of the depths of one's being, where the person decides for or against God.239

source

It doesn't matter how you put it, when a person dies, everything ceases, and they await the resurrection at the Second Coming. Man was never meant to die, but death came into the world as a consequence of sin.

For the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23

As death is non-life, it merely means that God takes the life ("rûach" spirit, breath) that He granted on condition of obedience back and man ceases to live. It is the life that was given that returns to God, and not a transformed version of man in the form a spirit being. When God said that man would "surely die" (Genesis 2:17) if he transgressed God's requirements, He meant that man would cease to live, and would return to dust.

Far from being a conscious state floating on a cloud or looking down at everyone and 'communicating in séances or other falsehoods, death is thus the ultimate state of non-being or unconsciousness, and is described as such in the Scriptures.

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalms 146:4

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything. Ecclesiastes 9:5

The dead are oblivious to what is happening on earth they know nothing.

Also their love, and their hatred and their envy is now perished. Ecclesiastes 9:6

For in death there is no remembrance of You; in the grave who will give you thanks? Psalm 6:5

[Hobie]

....so I won't be immortal in hell!

I suppose you don't believe in eternal punishment too?

The wicked do not get eternal life. Here are some verses about the wicked perishing. That is coming to a complete end, a state of non existence.

Ps 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Ps 68:1 Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.
2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
3 But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.

Ps 73:27 For, lo, they that are far from thee shall perish: thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from thee.

Ps 112:10 The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish.

Isa 41:11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.
12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought.

Luke 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

1 Cor 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

II Th 2:110 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2 Pet 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

As the above verse indicates, the result of eternal fire is annihilation. Sodom and Gomorrah suffered the vengeance of eternal fire, and they were totally consumed, they no longer exist.

[Truster]

When you leave time and enter eternity you'll realise how wrong you are, too late.

[betsy123]

The wicked do not get eternal life.

Their punishment is eternal. Eternal fire. Whether fire is a figure of speech for an agonizing punishment - the Bible describes the punishment as eternal.

Daniel 12
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.


Matthew 25
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.


Matthew 25
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


Matthew 3
12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”


2 Thess 1
8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might


Rev 14
10 he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever,


Rev 20
10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Here are some verses about the wicked perishing. That is coming to a complete end, a state of non existence.

Ps 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Ps 68:1 Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.
2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
3 But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.

Ps 73:27 For, lo, they that are far from thee shall perish: thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from thee.

Ps 112:10 The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish.

Isa 41:11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.
12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought.

Luke 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

1 Cor 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

II Th 2:110 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2 Pet 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

As the above verse indicates, the result of eternal fire is annihilation. Sodom and Gomorrah suffered the vengeance of eternal fire, and they were totally consumed, they no longer exist.

You're basing it on the term, "perish."
The term "perishing," is a figure of speech, and cannot be taken literally to mean annihilation, since it contradicts numerous passages that talks about ETERNAL punishment.


The punishment is clearly described as eternal, everlasting, forever and ever - they won't be extinguished. We are also fully conscious in hell.




Jesus gave a description of it:



Luke 16
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family,
28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

[Hobie]

When you leave time and enter eternity you'll realise how wrong you are, too late.

Christ said it over and over.....

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Luke 14:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.
15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.

[Hobie]

Their punishment is eternal. Eternal fire. Whether fire is a figure of speech for an agonizing punishment - the Bible describes the punishment as eternal.

Daniel 12
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.


Matthew 25
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.


Matthew 25
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


Matthew 3
12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”


2 Thess 1
8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might


Rev 14
10 he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever,


Rev 20
10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.





You're basing it on the term, "perish."
The term "perishing," is a figure of speech, and cannot be taken literally to mean annihilation, since it contradicts numerous passages that talks about ETERNAL punishment.


The punishment is clearly described as eternal, everlasting, forever and ever - they won't be extinguished. We are also fully conscious in hell.




Jesus gave a description of it:



Luke 16
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family,
28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

They are separated from God for eternity, it is eternal death, the wicked and sin will cease to exist.

As for the other, it clearly is a parable “a short, allegorical story designed to convey a truth or moral lesson.” The true meaning of the parable of "The Rich Man and Lazarus" was the message being given. The real message is not about what happens when people die, but the state of those who despise the blessings of God.

[betsy123]

They are separated from God for eternity, it is eternal death, the wicked and sin will cease to exist.

It doesn't say anything about them ceasing to exist. If the punishment is consistently described as eternal - it means we exist.

As for the other, it clearly is a parable “a short, allegorical story designed to convey a truth or moral lesson.” The true meaning of the parable of "The Rich Man and Lazarus" was the message being given. The real message is not about what happens when people die, but the state of those who despise the blessings of God.

A parable which describes a scenario in hell - consistent with the descriptions of punishments in other verses.

[Truster]

Christ said it over and over.....

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Luke 14:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.
15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.

Its called eternal life because it's eternal. The contrast being eternal death and damnation.

[Hobie]

It doesn't say anything about them ceasing to exist. If the punishment is consistently described as eternal - it means we exist.







A parable which describes a scenario in hell - consistent with the descriptions of punishments in other verses.

God can bring them back as He has the power, but this is a complete and eternal separation, eternal death.

Nobody is going to the bosom of Abraham, that was a idea that the religious leaders told the people, and Jesus turned it on its head.

[Hobie]

Nope. We're not talking about the physical here.

God didn't breathe life in animal's nostrils the way He did with man.


Genesis 2:7
“And the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul.”


It's that breath that has made man a living SOUL.

Man was not given a soul he became a living soul. Don't miss that as it is the unity of body and breath-of-life that constitute the soul. You ARE a soul; you do not HAVE a soul. .

The idea can be expressed as such:
Physical body (dust) + breath of life (spirit - ruwach) = living soul (a wholism of the two - nephesh)

The Hebrew word for soul is"nephesh". Nephesh was translated into many different English words for the KJV Bible (for instance; creature, beast, man, fish, thing, person or persons, etc) but an important thing one should plainly see is that none of the translations refer to it as being something that survives the death of the body nor does it mean that in the original Hebrew. It was used to describe the "wholism" of life - not a "dualism" as was latter taught by the Greeks (Plato to be precise) and is unfortunately with us still today.

[Truster]

Man was not given a soul he became a living soul. Don't miss that as it is the unity of body and breath-of-life that constitute the soul. You ARE a soul; you do not HAVE a soul. .

The idea can be expressed as such:
Physical body (dust) + breath of life (spirit - ruwach) = living soul (a wholism of the two - nephesh)

The Hebrew word for soul is"nephesh". Nephesh was translated into many different English words for the KJV Bible (for instance; creature, beast, man, fish, thing, person or persons, etc) but an important thing one should plainly see is that none of the translations refer to it as being something that survives the death of the body nor does it mean that in the original Hebrew. It was used to describe the "wholism" of life - not a "dualism" as was latter taught by the Greeks (Plato to be precise) and is unfortunately with us still today.

Man is a living soul and equally has a soul. It depends on the context of what is being conveyed.

[Hobie]

Its called eternal life because it's eternal. The contrast being eternal death and damnation.

So are you saying the wicked get eternal life in the Lake of Fire, not quiet sure what your getting at.

[Hobie]

Man is a living soul and equally has a soul. It depends on the context of what is being conveyed.

Man is not immortal, look at these verses...
Job 33:4
The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.


Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 6:17
And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Genesis 7:15
And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Genesis 7:22
All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.


So does the soul die?

Ezekial 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Revelation 16:3 - And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

Genesis 3:19 - In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 & 20 - For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

These five verses show the same thing, you have the body and the breath of life from God, it is mortal and can die.

Physical body (dust) – breath of life (spirit) and take it away = death (the ceasing of the two)

[Truster]

Man is not immortal, look at these verses...
Job 33:4
The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.


Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 6:17
And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Genesis 7:15
And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Genesis 7:22
All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.


So does the soul die?

Ezekial 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Revelation 16:3 - And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

Genesis 3:19 - In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 & 20 - For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

These five verses show the same thing, you have the body and the breath of life from God, it is mortal and can die.

Physical body (dust) – breath of life (spirit) and take it away = death (the ceasing of the two)

To fully understand the experience and reality of eternal life a man needs to have recieved it at regeneration. You haven't and so you can't possibly understand it.