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  • #61
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
    OK but the fold is Israel and other sheep are from outside the fold. I don't understand how you guys do not see that other sheep have to be other than Israel.
    only have sheep & goats

    Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
      . Because you are lost in your unbelief and the fact that Other sheep will be brought into the fold. You have seen where many have believed that the others in verse 16 0f John 10 are Gentiles, who else would it be. Other Jews in the dispersion? Where is your proof?
      So now you FALSELY accuse me of being an unbeliever?

      You showed me NOTHING and I showed you much evidence.
      • God NEVER called any gentile in the Bible a sheep. FACT.
      • Paul NEVER calls any believer a sheep in his epistles. FACT.
      • Jesus, during His earthly ministry was sent to HIS PEOPLE, Israel. FACT.
      • HIS PEOPLE are called sheep throughout scripture. FACT.

      Your behavior is shameful.

      Another note that I'm sure that you will ignore. Jesus will GATHER His sheep from the four winds upon His return.

      Mat 24:29-31 KJV Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

      Jer 31:8-11 KJV Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither. (9) They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. (10) Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock. (11) For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.
      All of my ancestors are human.
      Originally posted by Squeaky
      That explains why your an idiot.
      Originally posted by God's Truth
      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
        . Because you are lost in your unbelief and the fact that Other sheep will be brought into the fold. You have seen where many have believed that the others in verse 16 0f John 10 are Gentiles, who else would it be. Other Jews in the dispersion? Where is your proof?


        Originally posted by Clete View Post
        I very much doubt it!

        Not only is the term "sheep" used consistently throughout the bible as a symble of Israel, (a big reason being because of the Passover Lamb coming through Israel), but also Jesus had not come but to the "the lost sheep of the House of Israel" (Matthew 15:24) and so any referrence to Gentiles here would have been out of place, or, at the very least, cryptic in the extreme (i.e. meaningless to His audience).

        It seems much more reasonable to think that Jesus is simply saying that He intends to gather together all the Jews who were scattered all over the place (i.e. outside of Israel). Jesus even used this idea of scattered sheep just a couple a verses before...
        John 10:11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.

        And it is a common theme throughout the bible...
        Ezekiel 11:16
        Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Although I have cast them far off among the Gentiles, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet I shall be a little sanctuary for them in the countries where they have gone.” ’ 17 Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.” ’

        Ezekiel 34:20 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord God to them: “Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep. 21 Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad, 22 therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them—My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd.

        30 Thus they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people,” says the Lord God.’
        31 “You are My flock, the flock of My pasture; you are men, and I am your God,” says the Lord God.

        Psalms 44:11
        You have given us up like sheep intended for food,
        And have scattered us among the nations.

        Jeremiah 31:10
        “Hear the word of the Lord, O nations,
        And declare it in the isles afar off, and say,
        ‘He who scattered Israel will gather him,
        And keep him as a shepherd does his flock.’

        Jeremiah 50:17
        “Israel is like scattered sheep;
        The lions have driven him away.
        First the king of Assyria devoured him;
        Now at last this Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon has broken his bones.”

        18 Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel:
        “Behold, I will punish the king of Babylon and his land,
        As I have punished the king of Assyria.
        19 But I will bring back Israel to his home....

        Micah 2:12
        “I will surely assemble all of you, O Jacob,
        I will surely gather the remnant of Israel;
        I will put them together like sheep of the fold,

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
          So now you FALSELY accuse me of being an unbeliever?

          You showed me NOTHING and I showed you much evidence.
          • God NEVER called any gentile in the Bible a sheep. FACT.
          • Paul NEVER calls any believer a sheep in his epistles. FACT.
          • Jesus, during His earthly ministry was sent to HIS PEOPLE, Israel. FACT.
          • HIS PEOPLE are called sheep throughout scripture. FACT.

          Your behavior is shameful.

          Another note that I'm sure that you will ignore. Jesus will GATHER His sheep from the four winds upon His return.

          Mat 24:29-31 KJV Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

          Jer 31:8-11 KJV Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither. (9) They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. (10) Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock. (11) For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.
          I did not say you are and unbeliever. Get real dude, even believers can be caught in unbelief.
          He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

          Jim Elliot

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
            I did not say you are and unbeliever. Get real dude, even believers can be caught in unbelief.
            My apology for taking it that way.

            But... you are the one that has the unbelief problem. Address the arguments and quit with your fallacious reasoning.
            All of my ancestors are human.
            Originally posted by Squeaky
            That explains why your an idiot.
            Originally posted by God's Truth
            Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
            Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
            (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

            1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
            (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

            Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
              My apology for taking it that way.

              But... your are the one that has the unbelief problem. Address the arguments and quit with your fallacious reasoning.
              I think we both have valid points. I have addressed the point and have given you references. You have given no backup for your interpretation. Do you have any?
              He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

              Jim Elliot

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                I think we both have valid points. I have addressed the point and have given you references. You have given no backup for your interpretation. Do you have any?
                There is no sense in my going any further with you. You are fully indoctrinated into the myths of Churchanity and cannot even make a logical argument.

                P.S. I don't need a "backup" for my understanding as I have clearly demonstrated it from scripture. You, on the other hand, prefer popularity over facts.
                All of my ancestors are human.
                Originally posted by Squeaky
                That explains why your an idiot.
                Originally posted by God's Truth
                Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                  There is no sense in my going any further with you. You are fully indoctrinated into the myths of Churchanity and cannot even make a logical argument.

                  P.S. I don't need a "backup" for my understanding as I have clearly demonstrated it from scripture. You, on the other hand, prefer popularity over facts.
                  I'm glad for you in that you don't need agreement for your beliefs. My argument has been completely valid and you CANNOT prove that the "others" are not Gentiles. BTW outside the fold means outside Israel. Maybe in the future you will rethink your thoughts and come to the conclusion that maybe others have valid opinions to bring to the table.
                  He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                  Jim Elliot

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                    I'm glad for you in that you don't need agreement for your beliefs.
                    WOW... BR... another FALSEHOOD. A bold-faced lie from one believer about another.... sick, just sick.

                    I have given you many valid arguments that you have completely ignored.

                    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                    My argument has been completely valid and you CANNOT prove that the "others" are not Gentiles.
                    You've continued to make ASSERTIONS, but no arguments.

                    Note that I don't have to prove that they are not gentiles.... YOU need to prove that they are. Which you have NOT done!

                    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                    BTW outside the fold means outside Israel.
                    That's EXACTLY what I have said all along.

                    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                    Maybe in the future you will rethink your thoughts and come to the conclusion that maybe others have valid opinions to bring to the table.
                    You are simply bringing invalid opinions.
                    All of my ancestors are human.
                    Originally posted by Squeaky
                    That explains why your an idiot.
                    Originally posted by God's Truth
                    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      I have given you many valid arguments that you have completely ignored.
                      valid arguments where? All of your arguments have been addressed and shown to be false. You have in no way shown that the others of John 10:16 are other than Gentiles. The context speaks for itself. The meaning is Gentile!
                      He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                      Jim Elliot

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                        valid arguments where?
                        In many posts that you ignored.

                        Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                        All of your arguments have been addressed and shown to be false.
                        Another lie.

                        Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                        You have in no way shown that the others of John 10:16 are other than Gentiles. The context speaks for itself. The meaning is Gentile!
                        Fantasy on your part.

                        Gentiles are NEVER referred to as SHEEP in scripture. That is a term that God uses for ISRAEL.

                        Please show us ONE example were God calls a gentile one of His sheep.
                        All of my ancestors are human.
                        Originally posted by Squeaky
                        That explains why your an idiot.
                        Originally posted by God's Truth
                        Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                        Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                        1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                        Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Hobie View Post
                          ....to keep you under the bondage of sin. The false gospel of grace is one that has been cleverly devised for these last days which is almost impossible to differentiate from the true gospel. This is because the false gospel of grace uses exactly the same vocabulary that the true gospel uses with some serious spin doctoring.

                          Satan has basically invented a false gospel of grace that is every sinner's dream come true. Of course we are all sinners, but evil comes and using this false gospel of grace, tells Christians they are free to sin and delve into iniquity to the point there are now two classes of sinners these days which are 180 degrees apart when it comes to being under the dominion of sin in Satans lair. One class of sinners likes it that way, and the others want out from sin and its dominion.

                          The devil has designed this false gospel of grace for the first group. The false gospel tells sinners that they are in good and regular standing in their sin, which is what some have always wanted to hear, that Jesus saves us while we keep on sinning and continue happily in its bondage.

                          The true gospel is the news for every sinner who is fed up with sin and its bondage, and longing to be set free from its penalty and power and that gospel is sin shall not have dominion over us. When we accept Christ we do it with the understanding of what sin has done to us, its true price and the comprehension of its ultimate result of eternal death. We dont want its corruption to ourselves and its destructive influence over us, so we come to Christ who cleanses us from its wages and its dominion. That is the true gospel, to be alive in Christ not dead in sin, to be set free by Him from sins wages and so that sin is no longer our master, destroying and corrupting us with its evil.....

                          Scripture is clear on what the true gospel is, not a license to sin but a way to become free from sin and iniquity..

                          Romans 6:1-14

                          1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
                          2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
                          3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
                          4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
                          5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
                          6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
                          7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
                          8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
                          9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
                          10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
                          11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
                          12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
                          13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
                          14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

                          Hi H , and if there is no GRACE , then explain that death reigned from ADAM to MOSES ( Rom 5:14 ) HOW WERE people saved ??

                          dan p

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                            Gentiles are NEVER referred to as SHEEP in scripture. That is a term that God uses for ISRAEL.
                            "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Mt.25:31-34).

                            Do you deny that there will be Gentiles from "all nations" who will inherit the kingdom? If not, then you cannot deny that the Lord Jesus refers to those Gentiles as "sheep."

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by DAN P View Post
                              Hi H , and if there is no GRACE , then explain that death reigned from ADAM to MOSES ( Rom 5:14 ) HOW WERE people saved ??
                              The way that Noah was saved:

                              "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith" (Heb.11:7).

                              And the way that Abraham was saved:

                              "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:3-4).

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Hobie View Post
                                ....to keep you under the bondage of sin.
                                The sin/sins issue was settled by the cross when God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them (2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV)/when Christ died on the cross for our sins after being made sin for us, though He knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him (by trusting Him believing the gospel of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV).

                                The only things keeping you in bondage today are religious men and trying to keep the law for righteousness.
                                2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

                                Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

                                Comment

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