Is Jesus God?

[7djengo7]

The answer is logical: something that doesn't exist is not here to do anything,
which include the ability to know, or not know.

Once again, you're still clinging to the same error to which you've been clinging all along. You are imagining, against truth, that your phrase, "something that doesn't exist", is meaningful. To be referred to is to be, and to be is to exist, and so, if something is being referred to by your phrase, "something that doesn't exist", then the thing you are calling "something that doesn't exist" is something that does exist.

The fool hath said in his heart, "There is no God." One elementary thing about saying that that makes the fool a fool is the simple fact that he/she has just called something, or someone,"God", and yet, has denied that the something he/she called "God" exists. To call something, or someone, "God", is for that something, or someone, to exist; that is, for something, or someone, to be called "God" is for that something, or someone, to be--to exist.

Are you referring to something, or not, by your phrase "something that doesn't exist"? If you are referring to something by it, then you are (of necessity) referring, by it, to something that does exist. And, it seems rather silly to refer to something that exists by a phrase like "something that doesn't exist" rather than by a phrase like "something that does exist".

If you're not referring to something, then you're not stating truth.

Also, to be "not here to do anything" is to be, and to be is to exist. Whatever is "not here to do anything" is something that exists.

You're the one who loves playing with words - and it caught up with you. :shrug:

By "playing with words", you mean "asking people questions which are inexorably embarrassing to their cherished falsehoods".

Not only do you insist on your irrational argument (despite the clear, logical explanation given).......either you're being obtuse about it, or it's really sailing way over your head.........

Another meaningless phrase: "irrational argument". No argument is irrational; you hand me something that's irrational, and what you've handed me is not an argument.

Again, you've explained nothing;

.....but obviously, you can't keep a discussion without resorting to personal attacks.

I simply told you the truth when I called you a weasel. That's what you've been doing, persistently: trying to weasel yourself out of answering the questions I asked you. Even in your last post (#258) you are still being a weasel. You call truth-telling "resorting to personal attacks".

Well it's said the first one to throw a personal attack is the one who loses the argument.......nothing more for me to say.

Even in your own eyes you have lost, since, as you and I both know, you have needed, persistently, to stonewall against the questions I have asked you. You and I both know that you're not in the least satisfied with your performance, yet, what other choice do you have, so long as you stubbornly cling to your irrational mindset.

This so-called discussion between us has really sunk down to an "idle talk."
Before we say anything more we'd regret, I'm bowing out of it.

You already weaseled your way out of it from the get-go; and, your performance never really sunk down at all, but simply started out, and remained, at a low level. The posts you have written in reaction to my posts, have, indeed, been almost exclusively comprised of idle talk.

Again, betsy123, here are some of the questions against which you have been stonewalling:

• Is God able to know that you, betsy123, are wiser than God? Yes or No?
  [*]Is God able to know that you, betsy123, are holier than God? Yes or No?
  [*]Is God able to know that you, betsy123, are mightier than God? Yes or No?
  [*]Is God able to know that you, betsy123, created the heaven and the earth? Yes or No?

You don't answer these questions, you lose the debate.
You answer "No" to these questions, you answer correctly, but you still, equally, lose the debate.

 

[Lon]

That's nice.

:nuke:

Was that Intojoy?

 

[oatmeal]

Yes, Jesus is God.
Those who say otherwise are the people Peter warns against.
2 Peter 2:1
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

Peter made it clear that Jesus is not God, but rather a man approved of God, in Acts 2

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Was that Intojoy?

No idea.

 

[ok doser]

Was that Intojoy?

good call

 

[MennoSota]

Peter made it clear that Jesus is not God, but rather a man approved of God, in Acts 2

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Of course Jesus is human. He is Emmanuel, God with us.
Jesus declared that he is God. Jesus fulfilled Exodus 3.9

John 8:54-59 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Exodus 3:13-14 Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

Jesus says he is the I Am.

[emoji441]

 

[nikolai_42]

I NEVER SAID THAT JESUS WAS A FORM OF GOD. I said the Miltha, the spirit son, is a form of God. You fail to see that the express image of God is a spirit. Is not God a spirit? It is important to understand that. Now this is the spirit that was sent to dwell in the body prepared for IT in Heb 10:5
Peace

John 1:14
And the Miltha 8 became flesh and dwelt among us and we saw his glory, 9 the glory as the Only-Begotten 10 who is from the Father who is full of grace and truth.

The form of God was IN Jesus. Jesus is not a form of God, he is a god, given the power of his Father, yet he is a creation.

My thoughts, accept or reject. Jesus was made Lord by his God.


Peace

I agree that the flesh in which Christ was manifest is not eternal. But God didn't enter into some man (at His baptism...or whenever) - rather He became man. He took on the nature of man. He didn't enter into a man.

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Hebrews 2:16-17

The man Christ Jesus was God from the get-go. He took on the nature...He didn't enter into a man who was already walking on the earth.

 

[keypurr]

I agree that the flesh in which Christ was manifest is not eternal. But God didn't enter into some man (at His baptism...or whenever) - rather He became man. He took on the nature of man. He didn't enter into a man.

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Hebrews 2:16-17

The man Christ Jesus was God from the get-go. He took on the nature...He didn't enter into a man who was already walking on the earth.

At one time I would agree with you friend. But not any more,it goes deeper.

 

[keypurr]

1Co 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Joh 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Scripture is very clear, you can ban me a thousand times but you can not change the word of God.

 

[Right Divider]

1Co 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Isaiah says this about Jesus:

Isa 9:6-7 KJV For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (7) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.​

 

[oatmeal]

Of course Jesus is human. He is Emmanuel, God with us.
Jesus declared that he is God. Jesus fulfilled Exodus 3.9

John 8:54-59 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Exodus 3:13-14 Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

Jesus says he is the I Am.

[emoji441]

Jesus other name, Emmanuel, means God with us, it does not mean that Jesus is God, but a truth that is worth remembering for all believers

Jesus did not declare that he is God, he declared that he is the son of God. John 10:36 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Exodus 3:9 refers to God taking care of Israel at that time.

Jesus did not exist yet except in the foreknowledge and plan of God for our redemption

Jesus, in your quote from John 8 is referring to someone other than himself when he is speaking of God.

you say, ‘He is our God.’ But you have not known him. I know him.

If you are familiar with the Hebrew language you would know that "I am that I am" should be translated "I will be what I will be" thus Jesus is not quoting Exodus when he states, "before Abraham was, I am."

God first prophesied of the coming redeemer way back in Genesis 3:15

Jesus Christ is the man who would bring about man's redemption, not Abraham.

Jesus the anointed one, is the central character who God had bring about our redemption, all others, at best, are supporting roles.

God foreknew man's sin and foreplanned man's redemption even before man sinned. God did the planning, Jesus, the anointed one, carried out that plan, even as God planned to get Israel out from the oppression of the Egyptians and foretold that, and Moses was the agent of that plan.

Jesus was a prophet like unto Moses, Moses was not 'the God" but a god, Exodus 7:1

And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Jesus was a prophet like unto Moses, Moses is not "the God" but a god, a superior, to Israel's human enemy.

Jesus was likewise "a god" to mankind's spiritual enemy, the Devil.

Moses being "a god" does not make Moses "the god" Likewise with Jesus the anointed one.

 

[MennoSota]

Jesus other name, Emmanuel, means God with us, it does not mean that Jesus is God, but a truth that is worth remembering for all believers

Jesus did not declare that he is God, he declared that he is the son of God. John 10:36 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Exodus 3:9 refers to God taking care of Israel at that time.

Jesus did not exist yet except in the foreknowledge and plan of God for our redemption

Jesus, in your quote from John 8 is referring to someone other than himself when he is speaking of God.

you say, ‘He is our God.’ But you have not known him. I know him.

If you are familiar with the Hebrew language you would know that "I am that I am" should be translated "I will be what I will be" thus Jesus is not quoting Exodus when he states, "before Abraham was, I am."

God first prophesied of the coming redeemer way back in Genesis 3:15

Jesus Christ is the man who would bring about man's redemption, not Abraham.

Jesus the anointed one, is the central character who God had bring about our redemption, all others, at best, are supporting roles.

God foreknew man's sin and foreplanned man's redemption even before man sinned. God did the planning, Jesus, the anointed one, carried out that plan, even as God planned to get Israel out from the oppression of the Egyptians and foretold that, and Moses was the agent of that plan.

Jesus was a prophet like unto Moses, Moses was not 'the God" but a god, Exodus 7:1

And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Jesus was a prophet like unto Moses, Moses is not "the God" but a god, a superior, to Israel's human enemy.

Jesus was likewise "a god" to mankind's spiritual enemy, the Devil.

Moses being "a god" does not make Moses "the god" Likewise with Jesus the anointed one.

Yes, Emmanuel means God with us. Yes, it refers to Jesus.
Second, Jesus says he is I Am, a specific reference to God, which everyone understood and caused them to try kill him by stoning.
You can live in denial of these obvious realities or you can accept that Jesus is God. It's your eternal existence so consider wisely.

 

[7djengo7]

Peter made it clear that Jesus is not God, but rather a man approved of God, in Acts 2

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

"Peter made it clear that Jesus is not God"​

Obviously Peter did no such thing in Acts 2! So, what (if anything) was your point in quoting from Acts 2?

 

[oatmeal]

"Peter made it clear that Jesus is not God"​

Obviously Peter did no such thing in Acts 2! So, what (if anything) was your point in quoting from Acts 2?

When you read for instance, verse 22, Peter makes a clear distinction between Jesus, a man approved of God, and the one doing the approving, namely, God Himself

 

[oatmeal]

Yes, Emmanuel means God with us. Yes, it refers to Jesus.
Second, Jesus says he is I Am, a specific reference to God, which everyone understood and caused them to try kill him by stoning.
You can live in denial of these obvious realities or you can accept that Jesus is God. It's your eternal existence so consider wisely.

When understanding what scripture says becomes more important to you than your pet private interpretations, then we will be able to have a meaningful discussion

 

[MennoSota]

When understanding what scripture says becomes more important to you than your pet private interpretations, then we will be able to have a meaningful discussion

Back at ya!
I provided scripture. You deny what it says. Simple as that.

 

[7djengo7]

When you read for instance, verse 22, Peter makes a clear distinction between Jesus, a man approved of God, and the one doing the approving, namely, God Himself

When you say "namely, God Himself", are you referring to God the Father?

 

[7djengo7]

When understanding what scripture says becomes more important to you than your pet private interpretations, then we will be able to have a meaningful discussion

You choose to try to uphold your false, anti-Scriptural presupposition of unitarianism over caring about understanding what Scripture says. Thus, you're a hypocrite.

 

[keypurr]

Isaiah says this about Jesus:

Isa 9:6-7 KJV For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (7) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.​

Is that all you got JR?

Heb 1:1 God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners,
Heb 1:2 hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 having become by so much better than the angels, as he hath inherited a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? and again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 1:6 And when he again bringeth in the firstborn into the world he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels winds, And his ministers a flame a fire:
Heb 1:8 but of the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of thy hands:
Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou continuest: And they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Heb 1:12 And as a mantle shalt thou roll them up, As a garment, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, And thy years shall not fail.
Heb 1:13 But of which of the angels hath he said at any time, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet?
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to do service for the sake of them that shall inherit salvation?

Phi 2:5 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phi 2:6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Phi 2:7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
Phi 2:8 and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross.
Phi 2:9 Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name;
Phi 2:10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth,
Phi 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Jam 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.



Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loveth us, and loosed us from our sins by his blood;
Rev 1:6 and he made us to be a kingdom, to be priests unto his God and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Joh 14:23 TWO, not ONE

(ASV) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

(DRB) Jesus answered and said to him: If any one love me, he will keep my word. And my Father will love him and we will come to him and will make our abode with him.

(GNB) Jesus answered him, "Those who love me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and my Father and I will come to them and live with them.

(KJVR) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Joh 14:1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. Joh 14:1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.

Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,
1Co 15:24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
1Co 15:27 For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Mat 20:20 Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Jesus with her sons, bowing down and making a request of Him.
c

The Holy Bible, New International Version.

Eph 1:17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom n and revelation, so that you may know him better. NIV

Ro 15:5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus,
Ro 15:6 so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. NIV

Rev 1:5. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
Rev 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father —to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. NIV

Mar 10:18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

Luk 18:19 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

Joh 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

Joh 17:11 "I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.

Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, And the Most High God their Redeemer.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Is that all you got JR?

You replied to Right Divider, not me.