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The Bible calls the Father God.
The Bible calls the Son God.
The Bible calls the Holy Spirit God.
I'll stick with the Bible.
Is Jesus God?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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The Bible calls the Son God.
The Bible calls the Holy Spirit God.
I'll stick with the Bible.
Because that is not the issue.. The issue is the Father is the only true God... this nonsense about what it does not say is grasping at straws... Are you saying that Jesus was at a loss for words... We are discussing the scripture... which is what is written... and what is said... bringing up what was not said is a strawman... Paul wrote to us there is but one God The father.. not one God The Trinity..
Nope the Bible does not call Jesus or the holy Spirit God.. that is your misunderstanding... You haven't shown me what you understand only to mean??? Please let me know what you think only means..
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Are you lying or just ignorant?
Act 5:3-4 KJV But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? (4) Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Peter says that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. Therefore, the Holy Spirit is God.
So if a son is not his father then Jesus is not God... because his father is God.We know that the son was made flesh therefore he was not a spirit as the father... not withstanding the spirit of the father was in him. So you are wrong the son of God was flesh God is spirit... let me ask you this...If Jesus is the firstborn of many brethren and we will be just like him.If he is God wouldn't that mean we will be God also..Are you going to be like the most high God???
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I'm beginning to believe that your have a mental problem.
Jesus is God.
Jesus accepted being called God without hesitation
Joh 20:28-29 KJV And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (29) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Why didn't Jesus correct Thomas? (HINT: Because Thomas was correct and you are wrong).
.
Yep and you didn't understand what Peter was saying... see if you can glean anything from this passage...33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Based on your understanding when Jesus said if you did it unto to them you did it unto me... they were actually feeding clothing and visiting Jesus in prison...
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You're so typical of the childish type that cannot handle actual discussion and just try to create rabbit trails.
I will not play your silly and childish games.
You've earned a coveted spot on my ignore list.
Well I don't know that God's name has changed...has it??? God's name is Yahweh.. Thomas didn't call Jesus Yahweh did he??? God is addressed as Father did Thomas say Father???... Again if we are to assert that Jesus is God...then Jesus was a liar... and Peter was wrong..
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
So at this point if Jesus asked you who he is.. what would your answer be?? would you be like Peter and let God reveal it to you or would you let the RCC dictate what you answer...
You have not dealt with any issue that I brought up. You are just posting
Trinitarians proof texts... where is your discussion?? Have you addressed any of my points??? Apparently you are not able to handle opposing views...I didn't ask you to respond to my posts...So what do I care about your ignore list??? Just tell me if Peter was wrong when he said that Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God... Just tell me if God was wrong when he revealed that to Peter???
7djengo7
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Oh, but I did quote you in full. To exhibit the fact that you said, "Jesus did not want people to worship him directly", I quoted you in full as saying exactly that:
I didn't quote you merely in part; I didn't quote you thus:
nor thus:
nor thus:
nor thus:
etc.
Did you, or did you not, say "Jesus did not want people to worship him directly"? You did say that, obviously. I ALWAYS quote you in quote boxes DIRECTLY LINKED to the post from which I am quoting you. Anyone can easily click the link to find for themself exactly where you wrote:
One of the points I was making was that you said, "Jesus did not want people to worship him directly", and that is exactly why I quoted you, in full, as saying "Jesus did not want people to worship him directly." Quoting anything else, in addition to that, would have been entirely irrelevant to my point. I, obviously, can see why YOU would like me to quote material that you have written that is irrelevant to my point; it's just one more failed, transparently pathetic attempt by you to distract attention away from just how dismally you've embarrassed your Christ-despising heresy by your self-contradiction. The fact remains, no matter what other crap you have written on TOL (and you have written oh so much crap on TOL, indeed!!), that you have said "Jesus did not want people to worship him directly."
Do you now wish to retract that? Very well. Say, then:
"I, NWL, hereby retract my claim that Jesus did not want people to worship him directly."
7djengo7
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You say, out of one side of your mouth, that the word 'person' is meaningless, and then, out of the other side of your mouth, you say "God is not a person". If the word 'person' is meaningless, then, when you say "God the Father is not a person", you are merely speaking nonsense. That is, you're not affirming truth, and you're not even affirming falsehood. What is nonsense is neither true, nor false. If you wish to deny that you meant that the word 'person' is meaningless, then, by all means, Professor, do tell us exactly what you mean by 'person' when you say "God the Father is not a person". Tell us exactly what you are saying God the Father is not, when you say "God the Father is not a person". You're not just puffing out nonsense, are you? Surely you're not so stupid as to think that, just because you have strung some words together, like "God the Father is not a person", you must have meant something by them.
7djengo7
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Where does the Bible say that ONLY God the Father is the Only True God? That's right, Professor! Nowhere!
Not in John 17:3, nor anywhere else. Since, by the word 'God', you mean exclusively God the Father, here is what you are saying when you say that "God the Father is the only true God":"God the Father is the only true [God the Father]"
That's a tautology, of course. No argument from Trinitarians: we agree that God the Father is the only true God the Father. But, um, what's your point?
Oh, what's that? That's inconvenient and embarrassing? So, you don't mean that when you say "God the Father is the only true God"? All right, then, what do you mean by it?? Let's have it.
You've butchered Exodus 20!
Lol. What happened to Exodus 20:5?
You've posted this, #310:
The Scriptures disagrees with you!
READ!
Exodus 20
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Why didn't you include it? Why did you leave that out? Because, I'm bang-on!
If you don't believe Jesus is God Himself - then, you're committing idolatry in your worship of Jesus! You commit idolatry when you serve Jesus Christ!
Can't get any clearer than that!
I don't know where you non-Trinitarians are getting your apologetics from, but you're all arguing like juveniles. You keep giving bits and pieces.... some of you even chops off parts of the verses.....and clearly lack some understanding of the Bible.
I suggest you read posts # 320, 375, 381 and 401.
Maybe, you could answer the dilemma I gave.
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Oh, I see.....Thomas didn't call Jesus, Yahweh.
Instead, Thomas called Him, God.
Do you know why?
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Yahweh
YHWH is the name given by God to Moses.
4 Hebrew consonants called, tetragrammaton.
No one knows exactly how that should be pronounced.
And yet, here you are, telling us His name is Yahweh!
How do you know that?
Actually, it's you who cherry-picks.
Btw, you've changed the word of the verses you quoted. There is no "Jehovah" in it!
Here:
20 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything …
I don't know why you have to change it to "Jehovah."
Must be New World Translation, eh?
That's why you've chopped off line 5!
Exodus 20
5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.
It knocks down your argument!
Because you don't believe Jesus is God Himself - it shows you commit idolatry when you bow and serve Jesus Christ!
Leaving that out to take the message out of context - that's being dishonest, you know.
Dishonesty?
Does it have any association with God? Ironic, isn't it?
Anyway.....
.....if you guys have to resort to dishonesty to prop up your belief - that clearly shows that you follow......... false teachings!
Wakey-wakey......
The issue is that you're forcing the passage to say something that it does not, and we're calling you out on it.
Right, which is why it is important to not force the scripture, as you are doing, to say something that it does not say. Agan, we are pointing out that what you are claiming the passage says is NOT what it ACTUALLY says, and trying to correct you so that you see what it actually says.
There's more to the verse than that, Newbirth.
Here is the full verse:
yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. - 1 Corinthians 8:6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians8:6&version=NKJV
But getting back to the verse at hand:
Speaking to His Father, Jesus said:
[JESUS]And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.[/JESUS] - John 17:3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John17:3&version=NKJV
YOU are forcing the verse to say, "ONLY You, the (only) true God," but it doesn't say what you want it to say.
It says, Newbirth, that the Father is the only true God.
The only exclusive in this verse is "the only true God."
But that "only" doesn't apply to the Father.
Which means that the statements, "the Son is the only true God," and "the Holy Spirit is the only True God," are NOT excluded by verse 3.
Especially considering verses like Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, - Titus 2:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Titus2:13&version=NKJV
And 2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: - 2 Peter 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Peter1:1&version=NKJV
And even Acts 5:3-4, 9.
But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” . . . Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” - Acts 5:3-4,9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts5:3-4,9&version=NKJV
In other words, the only argument you can make to attempt to disprove the trinity is that the Bible never outright says that God is triune. But that's not getting the bigger picture of what the Bible says, because it clearly does say, not outright like you wish it would say, but in the details, that God is one God, and three Persons.