My Religion

[Lon]

Science can’t test for God Lon. There’s nothing to test.

I disagree. Romans 1:19-20 You may be arguing that science cannot see God from the 5 senses and I'll acquiesce a little, but certainly science IS the study of His handiwork, therefore screams "God was/is here!"

There’s no physical, testable evidence of God existing.

If you mean like faith Hebrews 11:1 but Psalm 19:1-4 and Psalm 145:5 If you will, the physical is the the springboard to knowing God exists. You may be saying that the end result is metaphysical by faith. If so, I agree and more importantly, believe scripture concurs. It is certain that the Lord Jesus Christ became a man and it is certain we dwell in a physical universe, but we equally know, specifically because of God's interaction 'in' our physical universe, that He exists. Again, I believe a better grasp of the metaphysical is 'with and beyond' rather than 'apart.' This is the whole point of discussing the topic with people who have trouble grasping metaphysical reality. It IS a reality. Trying to show it to them, is hard if the likes of Hawking believe in some odd way that 'philosophy' (metaphysics) is dead. Einstein would never have said such a thing (maybe when he was younger).

There’s evidence of people believing God exists, and there’s evidence that religion exists. Gods existence is not provable or disprovable by science.

Just so we are on the same page: I cannot prove dinosaurs lived. I can show reasonably that we have tissue that just doesn't seem likely can be 'faked.' It is, however reasonable for us to say science can evidence the existence of dinosaurs. Science isn't really in the business of 'proving' but rather 'showing reliable' so we can travel down a working pattern. The best we know right now is chemotherapy and radiation. It isn't 'proof' of anything against cancer. It is just the best working patterns and thoughts we have to combat it. Much of science works this way and so I can concur that science is incapable of proving the existence of God. It isn't capable of 'proving' anything. It works on reliable information collectively and we take things as tentative and 'more tentative' truths. God's truths and reality supersedes scientific observation. I'm not sure if I'm on the same page as you are trying to convey or not.

I never said I didn’t think God exists, in fact, I’ve said the opposite dozens of times in this thread. I said God can’t be proven to exist. If you think you can prove God exists, do it.

I can, depending on what you mean by 'proof.'

Lon, just two posts above you spoke of revelation as a form of truth. The fact that you think only your brand of religion brings forth revelation and truth shows that you are just fooling yourself and you don’t even know it.

:nono: As I've also repeatedly said in thread, it is not 'my' brand. In a nutshell, we are 'embracers' of truth, not actuators or quantifiers of it. We simply 'understand' or grasp it.

As such, you may appreciate this:

1) "God" refers in a very basic sense to 'whatever/whoever made me."
2) I did not create myself.
3) I am indeed, the product of something that did in fact make me.
.: (therefore) I have a creator/Creator.

This is simply an aspect of 'God' but it is inescapable logic and thus, in one's capacity to do mathematics/logic, it proves aspects of God and when those proven existences are put together, God is the whole of the Being (and more) we have shown to exist. :e4e:

There are many different religions in the world and they are practiced for a reason. Religious practitioners practice it because they believe in it. The fact you think your religion is the only one that is right, is an attribute of your religion. It’s no proof that you are right. I know from experience you are incorrect.


So, like said, before....we disagree and have different beliefs.

We are not 'actuators' of truth. We simply discover it. We aren't consistent enough, and so, in a way, I agree with you 'my' religion is subjective. Rather It isn't so much 'if' I have a hold of God (religion) but 'if in fact, He has a hold of me. Matthew 7:22,23

As far as other religions? 1 Timothy 3:16 John 1:14 Is there ANY religion that proposes that God Himself came as a man and gave it? Every religion is 'man trying to reach God' or it is just philosophy like Buddhism (with some hero worship of him). Buddhism, then, isn't so much a religion, but a philosophy. Even the Greek, Roman, and Norse gods and our information were 'about' them, never instruction worship delivered 'by' them to you and I. I'm VERY interested in any story/declaration of instruction coming directly from God, to man (Judaism/Christianity). Prophets come and go (thus cults), but God-in-the-Flesh is a claim that necessarily MUST be investigated by anyone suggesting they are spiritually seeking.

 

[Guyver]

I disagree. Romans 1:19-20 You may be arguing that science cannot see God from the 5 senses and I'll acquiesce a little, but certainly science IS the study of His handiwork, therefore screams "God was/is here!" .

Well Lon, it may be that I agree with this point...but you seem like an intelligent fellow, so I know you understand the importance of defining terms and concepts when discussing or debating a thing....

Since you brought it up, I’d like to ask you a couple questions about this scripture. First, what exactly are the attributes of God that can be seen by all men when studying that which is made?

Secondly, would you explain exactly what is meant by “Godhead” and how that can be understood by observing the universe?

Lastly, exactly what is it that men are without excuse for doing?

 

[bibleverse2]

From Gods perspective, time doesn’t exist except as a component of the physical world; since he is eternally existent, with no beginning or end and obviously predates all universes.

Note that time can still exist for Him (Revelation 8:1), just not always from the same perspective as us humans (2 Peter 3:8-9).

Using one thousand years as twenty four one hour periods shows that the last hour occurred well over a thousand years ago.

Note that 1 John 2:18's last time, or "hour" (based on the original Greek word "hora", G5610), has been going on for the last 2,000 years, just as the "hour" of everyone's still-future, physical resurrection (John 5:28-29) will span over a 1,000-year period (Revelation 20:5).

A sincere and complete study of the Revelation, especially verse one from chapter one and associated verses following, demonstrate the language and intent of the prophecy was the immediate future from the time of its writing.

No, see again post #281 above.

Also, Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are still future to us because they are about "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b). And just as Jesus Christ's Second Coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 has never been fulfilled, for nowhere in history books do we find its fulfillment, so the highly-detailed events of the preceding Tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 have never been fulfilled, for nowhere in history books do we find their fulfillment. Similarly, even this Tribulation as it is described in Matthew 24 cannot have happened yet, because Jesus' Second Coming must occur immediately after this Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31).

 

[bibleverse2]

Anytime I'm in the process of scientific inquiry, I'm ever mindful that nothing 'just happens,' . . .

Amen, unless YHWH God has purposely set it up to happen (1 Kings 22:20-22), or allows it to happen (Genesis 1:22).

And scientific inquiry is ultimately hopeless if it continues to leave out God (Ecclesiastes 11:5).

What science today is missing, in its search for a "Theory of Everything" which can unify all of the physical forces in the universe, is spirit. So by continuing to exclude the whole idea of spirit, science can never hope to understand the universe at its most fundamental level, or what its ultimate origin was: "As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit . . . even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all" (Ecclesiastes 11:5).

The relationship between the spiritual and the physical may be analogous to the relationship between energy and matter. Just as the relationship of energy to matter is summarized by the equation e=mc², meaning that immense amounts of energy are congealed and compacted, as it were, to form each tiny particle of matter, so the relationship between spirit and energy could theoretically be summarized by the equation s=ec³, meaning that immense amounts of spirit may be congealed and compacted, as it were, to form each tiny photon of energy. All energy being based on spirit would make sense, for God is a Spirit (John 4:24), and in Him everything consists (Colossians 1:17, Acts 17:28).

When science's equations regarding such things as the Big Bang singularity, black holes, and quantum entanglement require the inclusion of infinities, these infinities should not be seen as "failures", but as pointers to something going beyond the boundaries of the physical: that is, spirit. If science ever becomes able to describe spirit mathematically using proportional numbers rather than infinities, this could lead to new technologies (e.g. spiritual power plants, spiritual bombs), just as when science became able to describe atomic nuclei mathematically, this led to new technologies (e.g. nuclear power plants, nuclear bombs).

Just as energy consists of both particles (photons) and waves (electromagnetic waves) at the same time, so the basis for all energy, spirit, could consist of both particles (spiritons) and waves at the same time. If spirit is equivalent to consciousness, and consciousness consists of logic, emotion, and memory, then spiritual waves could consist of three sine waves (logic waves, emotion waves, and memory waves) interlocked at sixty-degree angles, just as electromagnetism consists of two sine waves (electric waves and magnetic waves) interlocked at a ninety-degree angle. But by our current, strictly-physical-based mathematics, a spiritual wave or spiriton would show up in a calculation as an infinity, and so it could be mistakenly rejected by our current science as a "failure". It is possible that by creating a mathematics which involves five dimensions of space-time (instead of four), the apparently infinite value of a spiritual wave or spiriton could be reduced to a proportional value.

String Theory has shown that it is mathematically possible that space-time has more than three spatial dimensions. Because of observations such as Daniel 5:5, John 20:26b, and Luke 24:31b, the spiritual realm could be a fourth spatial dimension in which spiritual entities are able to move about without being seen by physical entities in our three physical spatial dimensions, because our physical eyes, and light as we know it, extend in only three physical spatial dimensions. The spiritual spatial dimension would be higher than our three physical spatial dimensions in the same sense that a third physical spatial dimension is higher than two physical spatial dimensions. And so from the spiritual spatial dimension, our three physical spatial dimensions may appear flat (or flatter), just as from three physical spatial dimensions, something in two physical spatial dimensions would appear flat. An entity with access to the spiritual spatial dimension could do such things as enter only part of himself into the physical realm (Daniel 5:5), or suddenly appear in a locked room (John 20:26b), or suddenly disappear (Luke 24:31b). This ability would apply not only to spiritual beings (1 Corinthians 15:44, Luke 24:39), but also to any spiritual wave or particle.

 

[bibleverse2]

There’s no physical, testable evidence of God existing.

Note that there is:

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

This means that people can know that God exists simply by seeing everything else that exists (see also Psalms 19:1-4). For the universe could not have created itself from nothing by physics, because of the first law of thermodynamics. So something outside of physics had to have created the universe. The term spirit is used to refer to something which exists outside of physics. So what created the universe was a spirit (John 4:24, John 1:3). And this had to be an uncreated spirit, because nothing, not even a spirit, can create itself from nothing. For to create itself, it would have to already exist. So just by being able to see the universe, people have no excuse for denying the existence of an uncreated spirit, who is known as God (Romans 1:20, John 4:24, Psalms 19:1-4). And God must have eternal power (Romans 1:20), for the first law of thermodynamics requires that even the physical energy in the universe is eternal.

Because knowing that God exists is the only reasonable response to seeing the existence of the universe (Romans 1:20), when educated and intelligent people refuse to admit that God exists, this is only because they are intentionally choosing to be unreasonable (2 Thessalonians 3:2), choosing to be foolish, regarding God's existence, because of their human pride, their unthankfulness to God, and their desire to continue in sinful actions (Romans 1:21-22, Psalms 14:1). But there is no salvation in simply believing that God exists (James 2:19). Believing in Jesus Christ, the human/divine Son of God, and His suffering and dying on the Cross for our sins, and His rising physically from the dead on the third day, is the only way for people to have their sins forgiven, so that they will not have to go to hell when they die (John 3:16,36, Romans 3:25; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

 

[Guyver]

Note that there is:

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

This means that people can know that God exists simply by seeing everything else that exists (see also Psalms 19:1-4).

With respect, that's actually not what it means. It seems you have misunderstood. Maybe it's because you misquoted the verse?

The verse should read as follows, "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [g]Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. "

Here's the relevant part "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [g]Godhead,"

So, you said that everyone can know that God exists simply by looking at everything else that exists. But that's not what the verse claims. It says that not only would a person understand that God exists, but they would know his invisible attributes, and his eternal power and Godhead.

So, I ask you. What exactly are the specific invisible attributes of God that every person should know by nature, simply by examining that which is made?

 

[Guyver]

Amen, unless YHWH God has purposely set it up to happen (1 Kings 22:20-22), or allows it to happen (Genesis 1:22).

And scientific inquiry is ultimately hopeless if it continues to leave out God (Ecclesiastes 11:5).

Very interesting. So, what do you suggest? Do you think that every scientific firm or research institution should begin the day with a prayer circle and hold hands while singing Cumbayah My Lord?

Or do you think maybe you have just made a silly comment based upon cultural/religious programming and not by critical thought?

When Einstein discovered his famous theory of relativity....he did it by the power of his mind, not his religious practice.

When Louis Pasteur discovered penicillin, ultimately saving millions of lives in the process, his did it by scientific and not religious practice.

These are two of hundreds of examples that demonstrate science has been doing just fine without attempting to insert religion in the mix.

 

[Guyver]

OMG! It looks like the moderators just deleted a thread that a person really bared their soul in. How disappointing. Jesus. If you people are Christians you’re supposed to love people and help them.

Man you are phony. That’s the exact person you would help if your religion had any power whatsoever.

 

[Guyver]

Shame. I would have helped that guy.

 

[Lon]

Well Lon, it may be that I agree with this point...but you seem like an intelligent fellow, so I know you understand the importance of defining terms and concepts when discussing or debating a thing....

Since you brought it up, I’d like to ask you a couple questions about this scripture. First, what exactly are the attributes of God that can be seen by all men when studying that which is made?

David says 'His glory' Psalm 19:1 and in Genesis 1, that He values 'what is good.' etc. You can add to it with me, His orderliness and precision, having participated in the scientific method? Romans 1: 20 says His 'eternal power and divine nature (Godhead as you ask). It means that one can know, looking at creation, that God's power is everlasting and of eternal quality in the way He makes things, and also that creation carries the mark of the divine (all the attributes of God).

Secondly, would you explain exactly what is meant by “Godhead” and how that can be understood by observing the universe?

It means, those qualities that would mark God, "God" (it is a doublet like "God's godliness"). When Paul says this, he is saying that all of who God is, 'can' be gleaned from looking at the evidence of 'what He does.'

Lastly, exactly what is it that men are without excuse for doing?

Look back up to verse 18 and 19 (Romans 1:18,19). It is a denial and suppression of truth by unrighteousness. There is more to unpack if you need to wade through it, because there is a 'desire' to suppress the truth specifically by and because of the unrighteousness of that man. Some atheists tell me they are 'good guys' but if we read this scripture as true, there necessarily is a suppression of truth by unrighteous thought and acts.

 

[Lon]

OMG!

Exodus 20:7 You of course are not using it as curse word/phrase, but if in vain, the implication is the same....

It looks like the moderators just deleted a thread that a person really bared their soul in. How disappointing. Jesus. If you people are Christians you’re supposed to love people and help them.

Way better to PM and ask a mod why, than distract your thread over the matter. God is sovereign. The guy is under God's watchfulness. You can pray for him/her. This fits well, imho, with the discussion of Romans 1

Man you are phony.

The mod? Not the place for this. always better in PM's.

That’s the exact person you would help if your religion had any power whatsoever.

We've had a LOT of longsuffering on TOL, but like the street beggar, sometimes it is better to go through rescue mission channels than to just indulge them and give them money and time for a few more beers or worse. Being part of a solution is better than 'enabling' the problem. I've no idea the context, but it is best to talk to a moderator and not gum up your own or another's thread AND to give the benefit of the doubt.

In every instance I've ever seen, our mods here have had excellent reasons for their moderation (even if it isn't the way I'd have done it). I believe the mods do very well here. Romans 13:1-5

 

[Fred Eans]

May I interject, when God created Adam, He was given the whole plate of what we see and study of man today. Now the 6th day creation, which is all the races was don by spoken word. God’s 8th day, God created the blood line of Jesus, so He took a little more interest. So He could see that Adam needed a help meet to allow the lineage. What was the first surgery on man, God removed a curve, which in all of man’s ignorance translated it to the only thing they could understand, a rib. Well God knows that was wrong, but if there ha been a scientist then, they would agree with God. Today, and this why, or one reason why we call God, “curve”. So with that background a Scientist would say, “oh, that is the helix curve.” So, God took the feminine DNA from Adam, and lovingly molded Eve. That also makes God the first Scientist. Thank you. Fred Eans

 

[Guyver]

Lon, you have spoken rightly. I thank you for responding.

 

[Guyver]

May I interject, when God created Adam, He was given the whole plate of what we see and study of man today. Now the 6th day creation, which is all the races was don by spoken word. God’s 8th day, God created the blood line of Jesus, so He took a little more interest. So He could see that Adam needed a help meet to allow the lineage. What was the first surgery on man, God removed a curve, which in all of man’s ignorance translated it to the only thing they could understand, a rib. Well God knows that was wrong, but if there ha been a scientist then, they would agree with God. Today, and this why, or one reason why we call God, “curve”. So with that background a Scientist would say, “oh, that is the helix curve.” So, God took the feminine DNA from Adam, and lovingly molded Eve. That also makes God the first Scientist. Thank you. Fred Eans

By all means, you are welcome to interject. I don’t like to think about God as the first scientist, except in the way that Einstein demonstrated. He could figure it all out just in his mind before he took any physical action.

I have no doubt in my mind that Einstein’s comment about God not rolling dice with the universe is true, except for one small point. It could be that in order for one eventuality to occur, then all must occur. That would actually clear some things up, in my mind anyway.

 

[Guyver]

David says 'His glory' Psalm 19:1 and in Genesis 1, that He values 'what is good.' etc. You can add to it with me, His orderliness and precision, having participated in the scientific method? Romans 1: 20 says His 'eternal power and divine nature (Godhead as you ask). It means that one can know, looking at creation, that God's power is everlasting and of eternal quality in the way He makes things, and also that creation carries the mark of the divine (all the attributes of God).

It means, those qualities that would mark God, "God" (it is a doublet like "God's godliness"). When Paul says this, he is saying that all of who God is, 'can' be gleaned from looking at the evidence of 'what He does.'


Look back up to verse 18 and 19 (Romans 1:18,19). It is a denial and suppression of truth by unrighteousness. There is more to unpack if you need to wade through it, because there is a 'desire' to suppress the truth specifically by and because of the unrighteousness of that man. Some atheists tell me they are 'good guys' but if we read this scripture as true, there necessarily is a suppression of truth by unrighteous thought and acts.

Lon, you’ve done such a fine job with these questions I don’t wish to argue against anything you said. You have answered wisely.

 

[Guyver]

We've had a LOT of longsuffering on TOL, but like the street beggar, sometimes it is better to go through rescue mission channels than to just indulge them and give them money and time for a few more beers or worse. Being part of a solution is better than 'enabling' the problem. I've no idea the context, but it is best to talk to a moderator and not gum up your own or another's thread AND to give the benefit of the doubt.

In every instance I've ever seen, our mods here have had excellent reasons for their moderation (even if it isn't the way I'd have done it). I believe the mods do very well here. Romans 13:1-5

Once again Lon, you have shown yourself to be wise. You’ll have to excuse me if I am not myself right now. I’m fighting off a virus, and I’m just sick and tired of being sick and tired. I know I should have a better attitude, be thankful for all things and so forth, but I’m just not. Anyway, peace be with you.

 

[Guyver]

Note that time can still exist for Him (Revelation 8:1), just not always from the same perspective as us humans (2 Peter 3:8-9).

I would like to remind you that it was God himself who established time according to the Bible. Genesis chapter 1 verses 14-19.

Note that 1 John 2:18's last time, or "hour" (based on the original Greek word "hora", G5610), has been going on for the last 2,000 years, just as the "hour" of everyone's still-future, physical resurrection (John 5:28-29) will span over a 1,000-year period (Revelation 20:5).

Note that John was not referring to a physical hour, because it took him longer than that just to write the epistle, let alone distribute it to the churches....especially considering he wrote by hand and there was no means of copying text except by hand at that time. So, the Apostle was referring to the last “spiritual hour” which meant a time very soon. This view is corroborated by other bible writers.

According to the spiritual time of one thousand years equals one day that you advocate, it would be 46.67 actual years. This time consideration concurs with other bible verses and the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.

No, see again post #281 above.

Also, Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are still future to us because they are about "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b). And just as Jesus Christ's Second Coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 has never been fulfilled, for nowhere in history books do we find its fulfillment, so the highly-detailed events of the preceding Tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 have never been fulfilled, for nowhere in history books do we find their fulfillment. Similarly, even this Tribulation as it is described in Matthew 24 cannot have happened yet, because Jesus' Second Coming must occur immediately after this Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31).

The things written in the Revelation were to occur in the immediate future of the writing of the prophecy, and not thousands or tens of thousands of years later. I found this out by studying the topic in detail myself for many years, including an examination of the original language, and the review of professional bible scholars and theologians.

Since you hold the opposite view of the actual writing of the words of the Bible, I don’t see the need to put the effort of attempting to prove these points to you here. But if someone insist that I do, I will gladly do so, though it would take some time for me to cover it in detail.

 

[Lon]

Once again Lon, you have shown yourself to be wise. You’ll have to excuse me if I am not myself right now. I’m fighting off a virus, and I’m just sick and tired of being sick and tired. I know I should have a better attitude, be thankful for all things and so forth, but I’m just not. Anyway, peace be with you.

Prayers you feel better soon. -Lon

 

[bibleverse2]

. . . science has been doing just fine without attempting to insert religion in the mix.

To a point. But it still can't explain, for example, the origin of the Big Bang singularity, or what dark matter or dark energy are.

Also, regarding post #304 above, note that if spiritual particles exist, they could turn out to be "the God Particle" of science. While the Large Hadron Collider has reached a high-enough energy level so that a "God Particle" (a Higgs boson) has manifested itself, its observed qualities might ultimately be able to be described only by equations involving infinities, so that its qualities and actions could ultimately be seen as "impossible" and "spooky", instead of science finally admitting to the existence of a substance which is spiritual. And spirit would not have to be seen by scientists as some weird, foreign substance, but rather as the most fundamental substance of even their own selves (1 Thessalonians 5:23). And could spirit also be the basis for the "dark matter" and "dark energy" which together make up 96% of the universe, but which science cannot yet observe directly or explain?

The really sad and dangerous thing is that even if science does eventually determine that "the God Particle" (or some other particle, detected at even higher, Large-Hadron-Collider energy levels) is a spiritual particle, which science could come to call the "spiriton", some scientists could still refuse to believe in and submit themselves to YHWH God of the Bible, saying that the existence of spirit per se does not require that there is one infinite, conscious spirit-being named YHWH God (John 4:24, Mark 12:30, Deuteronomy 6:5). And in its subsequent experiments with spirit, science could come into contact with the evil spirit-being named Lucifer (Satan), who could manifest himself in some future, ultra-high-energy, Large-Hadron-Collider experiment and claim that he is the true and beneficent God of mankind, and must be worshipped instead of YHWH. In this way, a nascent spiritual science could be hijacked and employed by Lucifer and his current worshippers as one part of their future deception by which the world will eventually be deceived into consciously and openly worshipping Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and his human son the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") as God (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), instead of YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

The unity of mankind which will occur at that future time could be like the unity of mankind which occurred at the time of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:6). And there could even be a future equivalent to the Tower of Babel, which could be built in the literal, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq). For Lucifer (Satan) could show mankind how to build there a huge tower device, a spiritual machine the size of the Empire State Building, which will be able to send into the sky an incredibly-powerful spiritual beam analogous to a laser. Near the end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, Lucifer could tell mankind that it will need to employ this huge weapon during an impending battle against YHWH (Revelation 16:14b, Revelation 19:19). Mixing some science fiction with some ancient lies of Gnosticism, Lucifer could tell mankind something like:

"YHWH will soon come down to the earth in his gigantic spaceship which is shaped like a Borg Cube [cf. Revelation 21:16]. He is coming to enslave you all and turn you all into Borg-like drones. But this mighty Tower Device will be able to blow his Borg Cube and him to bits with its spiritual ray. Then we can focus the Tower Device on any point of empty space until it burns in space-time a hole, a portal through which I will lead your spirits out of this vile, material universe which YHWH made to be our prison. And I will lead you back up into the purely-spiritual realm of the Pleroma [i.e. Heaven], where you can live as gods in bliss, doing what you please, forever, just as you had done with me for all ages past, before we by mistake fell into YHWH's trap of this material universe".

Before Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming from heaven, Lucifer could prove the power of the Tower Device to mankind by letting the Antichrist and his False Prophet (of Revelation 19:20) use it to blow up some large asteroids, and even some moons of other planets, so that mankind will go into its battle against YHWH in full confidence that it will be able to destroy him. But when the battle comes, the device will not work against YHWH (cf. Psalms 21:11, KJV). Instead, Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will descend from heaven and take total victory in the battle (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6).

 

[bibleverse2]

I have no doubt in my mind that Einstein’s comment about God not rolling dice with the universe is true, except for one small point. It could be that in order for one eventuality to occur, then all must occur. That would actually clear some things up, in my mind anyway.

Are you thinking of the idea of the multiverse? If so, note that positing a multiverse, which could very well exist, does not get around the fact that God must exist if anything else exists (Romans 1:20). For even an always-existing multiverse is impossible, apart from God, because of entropy. For our universe is expanding and cooling down and will stay cool. And if it arose from a multiverse, the multiverse is overall cooling down as well. And if the multiverse had existed from all eternity, over eternity past by giving rise to hot universes which cooled down and stayed cool, the multiverse would have, apart from God, cooled down to too low a temperature to give rise to the infinitely-hot Big Bang singularity only some fourteen billion years ago ("only" compared with eternity past). So even if there is a multiverse from which our universe arose, it cannot have existed from all eternity, apart from God, but had to have been maintained in its existence by the eternal power of God (Romans 1:20).