The Word of God?

glorydaz

Well-known member
I offer that the Words of God himself should be intuitively obvious to any intelligent casual observer as they would be so special as to be self-apparent.

You jest? You actually didn’t say, then said you did. That makes zero sense. And that’s ok if it works for you, but that doesn’t work for me, so thanks anyway and nevermind. If that’s your idea of a convincing argument we have nothing more to discuss.

I was referring to this part of your post (in yellow above)....thinking what I posted about believers understanding God's words are intuitively obvious TO US as we read or hear them spoken.

Perhaps you should have made it clearer OR perhaps I missed what you were actually saying. Undoubtedly both.

Whatever the case may be, you might try to clear things up before jumping off the deep end.
 

Guyver

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I guess if you're looking at it from a non-Christian perspective, although I think your conclusion is probably too general to be of much good in assisting any understanding of Christianity.

Thank you. I’m not interseted in understanding Christianity as religion has no appeal to me. I am very interested in God however, and He does mean something to me. I am interested in why Christians believe the Bible to be the Word of God and what that actually means.

So far, they have not been able to assist me much. From what I gather, Christians believe the Bible is God speaking because they do (ie. that is their religion) or because the Bible itself claims that is. I don’t find these two reasons compelling in the least, but obviously, some people do.
 

chair

Well-known member
David understood the Hebrew scriptures to be God's word.
Psalm 119:9-16 How can a young man keep his way pure? By guarding it according to your word. With my whole heart I seek you; let me not wander from your commandments! I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you. Blessed are you, O Lord; teach me your statutes! With my lips I declare all the rules of your mouth. In the way of your testimonies I delight as much as in all riches. I will meditate on your precepts and fix my eyes on your ways. I will delight in your statutes; I will not forget your word.

You are assuming that when David says "word" or "testimonies" he means the Bible.
 

Guyver

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I was referring to this part of your post (in yellow above)....thinking what I posted about believers understanding God's words are intuitively obvious TO US as we read or hear them spoken.

Perhaps you should have made it clearer OR perhaps I missed what you were actually saying. Undoubtedly both.

Whatever the case may be, you might try to clear things up before jumping off the deep end.

You offered me the scripture from 2 Timothy which claims all scripture is given by inspiration of God. That statement in and of itself could mean a thousand different things, but it appeas that to YOU it means the Bible is the Word of God. You offered me the evidence of changed lives as evidence of this fact.

People can change their lives with the power of thought, so you’ll excuse me if I find that argument unconvincing. I do thank you for your responses and may peace be with you.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
You offered me the scripture from 2 Timothy which claims all scripture is given by inspiration of God. That statement in and of itself could mean a thousand different things, but it appeas that to YOU it means the Bible is the Word of God. You offered me the evidence of changed lives as evidence of this fact.

People can change their lives with the power of thought, so you’ll excuse me if I find that argument unconvincing. I do thank you for your responses and may peace be with you.

Just giving my input, Guyver. I certainly didn't mean to offend.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Thank you. I’m not interseted in understanding Christianity as religion has no appeal to me. I am very interested in God however, and He does mean something to me. I am interested in why Christians believe the Bible to be the Word of God and what that actually means.

So far, they have not been able to assist me much. From what I gather, Christians believe the Bible is God speaking because they do (ie. that is their religion) or because the Bible itself claims that is. I don’t find these two reasons compelling in the least, but obviously, some people do.

So you're searching for God and can't find him.

When you get tired of searching, open the Bible.
 

Guyver

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So you're searching for God and can't find him.

When you get tired of searching, open the Bible.


Lol. Ok. Thanks. Please don’t be offended if I don’t respond to your posts. I don’t consider this thread a comedy number, but apparently you do.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Firstly, it presents God as being unaware that man would need a mate to reproduce as the animals do. Eve was provided for Adam as an afterthought (Genesis 2:18). This is a terrible idea because it makes God look like he doesn’t know what he was doing. I can’t imagine the God who made the universe would be unaware of that important detail, but I guess many people have no problem with it.

The reason people have no problem with it is because it's a figment of your imagination.
You are reading your own doubts into what is written.

Next....we have the story of the fall of man. Satan was allowed into the garden to deceive those precious innocent “children” of God and doom the entire human race to hell? Yeah bad idea. Who among you would allow a psychopathic killer to babysit your children?

Not what happened, and not why God allowed satan in the garden.

Then, when things didn’t work out as God would have liked, he was displeased and decided to kill everyone and everything. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord, so God changed his mind again. This time, he decided to leave some things alive. It presents a picture of God as being confused, regretful and uncertain as well as not completely informed.

God had a plan from the very beginning, and what is written down is for our sakes. Not so we could critique God, but so that we would seek to know Him. There's a lot you don't know about these snippets you've brought up.

That is just one of a myriad of reasons that I consider the Bible does a terrible job presenting God.

I just don't remember you as being a doubting Thomas, Guyver. :think:

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.​
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Lol. Ok. Thanks. Please don’t be offended if I don’t respond to your posts. I don’t consider this thread a comedy number, but apparently you do.

Nope, I'm just trying to lighten you up a bit, Guyver. You take yourself way too seriously.
 

csuguy

Well-known member
I thank you for asking. I would like to first make a complete disagreement with your statement that the presentation of God in the bible is the same in the OT and the NT. In the OT, God is a "Man of War" and in the New Testament God is referred to as the "God of love and peace." 2 Cor 13:11

Incorrect. For instance, David was forbidden from building the Temple precisely because he was a man of war - and that was not how God wished to be presented.


1 Chronicles 22:7-10 David said to Solomon: “My son, I had it in my heart to build a house for the Name of the Lord my God. 8 But this word of the Lord came to me: ‘You have shed much blood and have fought many wars. You are not to build a house for my Name, because you have shed much blood on the earth in my sight. 9 But you will have a son who will be a man of peace and rest, and I will give him rest from all his enemies on every side. His name will be Solomon,[a] and I will grant Israel peace and quiet during his reign. 10 He is the one who will build a house for my Name. He will be my son, and I will be his father. And I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.’

Those two things are not the same at all. I have much more to say about this, but my computer just informed me that this website is not secure. I will not be able to post with this computer, and this will limit me somewhat. I would like to come back and answer your question with more detail if possible.

Been using this website for years and years; it's plenty safe. For a little while there firefox was blocking it with a similar error due to false reports, but it no longer does.
 

csuguy

Well-known member
Nothing is treated with more authority than the Scripture in Catholicism.

The words of the Apostles are the Word of God. 1st Thessalonians 2:13 KJV The Apostles yes wrote, but they also spoke; they taught, and they also approved, this latter Apostolic authorization is the reason why the New Testament contains books and epistles not written by any Apostles, like Mark and Luke and Acts. These were approved by the Apostles, so the Apostles authenticated them as the Word of God.

The Apostles instituted the office that would be tasked with preserving the Word of God for posterity, the office of Bishop. The bishops themselves teach that one pastorate presides over all the others, Peter's Roman pastorate, the Pope being the current holder of this office. The papacy is given the charism of infallibility to authenticate already existing ancient teachings as Apostolic, not to ever invent or introduce new teachings as the Word of God.

Before the Schism that still today divides the world's thousands of validly ordained bishops, all of the bishops participated either directly or by proxy in a number of Church councils. These councils were a 'comparing of notes' between the bishops, comparing what each of theirs own received Apostolic oral traditions were with one another. The councils therefore separated deficiencies in their Apostolic oral traditions and anathematized them, purifying the Apostolic oral tradition as a whole for all of the bishops then, and for all the future bishops who had not even been born yet.

As Jesus told the Pharisees, Matthew 15:6 "...You nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition."

Catholicism may say that nothing exceeds the scripture in authority (though, honestly never heard a Catholic assert it in those words), but in practice scripture takes a back seat to the councils, Church Fathers, and overall tradition. This is because, in Catholicism these things are viewed as holding the correct interpretation of scripture. So, even if the teaching in fact isn't found in scripture or even contradicts scripture - it doesn't matter to the Catholic. In fact, for the longest time the Catholic laity weren't taught to read the scriptures period - and were even punished for making it accessible to others in the common tongue.

The papacy and the idea of infallibility are one such invention. In fact, the formal definition of Papal Infallibility didn't come around until the later half of the 19th century in the First Vatican Council (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Vatican_Council), and even in Catholicism there were those who opposed the idea.
 

Guyver

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Incorrect. For instance, David was forbidden from building the Temple precisely because he was a man of war - and that was not how God wished to be presented..

Exodus 15:3. “The Lord is a man of war; the Lord is his name.”
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Exodus 15:3. “The Lord is a man of war; the Lord is his name.”

Are you faulting God for delivering His people from slavery in the land of Eqypt?

Exodus 15:3-5 The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is his name. 4 Pharaoh's chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the Red sea. 5 The depths have covered them: they sank into the bottom as a stone.​

Here we see our Lord Jesus Christ warning of the wrath to come.

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

The Lamb bringing wrath upon the wicked.

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

God is Love and Wrath...He is Righteous in all His ways.
 
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