What is holding us back?

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glorydaz

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Paul certainly wrote to the Gentiles. But that's not what I was getting at.

The Gentiles that Paul wrote to were the Romans, the Corinthians, the Galatians, the Ephesians, the Phillipians, the Colossians, the Thessalonians, Timothy, Titus, and Philemon. Groups of gentiles, and a few specific individuals.

We are not those people, however.

Which is why even though I agree that Paul wrote to the Gentiles, I think it would be more accurate, at least for us, who are also Gentiles, to say that it was written "for" us, but not "to" us. Do you get what I'm saying?

Think of it this way: Paul wrote a letter to your siblings, but it benefits you as well, even though it's not addressed to you.

It was written to your siblings, but it was written FOR YOU also.

I don't agree. The Gospels were written for us....but not to us.

What Paul says, here, for instance is written directly to ME. This is by direct inspiration from God. I am the "thyself" being addressed. Just as you are.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​
 

clefty

New member
I don't agree. The Gospels were written for us....but not to us.

What Paul says, here, for instance is written directly to ME. This is by direct inspiration from God. I am the "thyself" being addressed. Just as you are.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​

Maybe we should call you by your real name them eh Timothy? Because that is to whom the letter was written...
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Ok...So Yahushua said follow Me...love as I loved you...Paul said the same...Copy me as I copied Christ...neat eh?

Thanks for the advise...

Might I suggest you study this to better understand Paul?

http://www.fogwhistle.ca/acts/evidence.html

Yes, I have read through all that years ago. It is best to live with an open heart and try to do good, but not to impress God, but to be closer to Him. Do this and you will get closer.
 

clefty

New member
why do you always have to laugh about it? I wonder why you think dialogue is funny, are you nervous? Why are you so focused on the OT? The Ten Commandments are a valuable guide and they intuitively make sense to anyone. They are not the main issue here, which you seem to be avoiding. Why?

Stick around...
 

clefty

New member
Yes, I have read through all that years ago. It is best to live with an open heart and try to do good, but not to impress God, but to be closer to Him. Do this and you will get closer.

Oh ok...

So is that open heart circumcised? Is His Law written on it?...

so to do good is what? Good according to Man or oh wait we are not to impress Him...hmmmm

Do what to get closer?...

Can I worship another god?
Make idols?
Blaspheme His name?
Dishonor my parents?
Steal, murder, adultery, LIE, covet...

Hmmmm...missing one...oh well...don’t need to impress Him...all these were abolished anyway right?

Just do good...you know LOVE everybody...like pagans love...or Buddhists...or muslims...or jews...I mean jews love everybody right?

Oh yes Sabbath...is seventh day Sabbath or Sunday doing good?

Speaking of rest...good night
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
settle down sister...

Put on your big boy pants, son.


you are making the claim not all has been dispensed to you...so just taking that logic to its end...are you Roman or just following its tradition?

Your "logic" is that of the natural man of the flesh.

We're speaking of knowledge concerning the right division of the word of God.



well that’s what Paul wrote to the Ephesians in chapter 2...but yes NOT you despite you claim its to you LOL...I claim it though...

Paul wrote to all believers under his dispensation of Grace. It's not my fault that you can't see that.



Not at all...I graduated...the law the schoolmaster taught me is in my mind and circumcised heart now...pointing me to Him

You however are still an uncircumcised heart and lawless in mind I guess...

Spoken like an elementary school boy trying for one-up-man-ship. :sigh:
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Maybe we should call you by your real name them eh Timothy? Because that is to whom the letter was written...

It's a crime to read other people's mail.



That is unless the Holy Spirit is doing the dictating, and all who are spiritual are doing the reading.

1 Corinthians 2:12-13
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.​

Whatever Paul writes is addressed to the household of God.

Eph. 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
You think?

Yes because for Yah so loved only the Jews...and lucky for us they rejected...had they not rejected...oh boy would we be doomed...none of it for us dontcha know...

Church thought that for centuries too...LOL...the Bible? NOT FOR YOU!!...we tell you...

Can you get any more foolish?
Looks like it, since you just keep on acting the fool.


The Jews were to bring us to God. We would not have been "doomed" as you assert.


Using scripture for reproof. Can you dig it?

John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.​
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
On the contrary. We are perfectly equiped to "get the job done".

Each member, individually....preaching the Gospel of Salvation to the lost.

That is our mission during this age. That and no other.
I agree: we are equipped. We have The Holy Spirit. He is capable of giving us abilities beyond those restricted by the laws of physics and personal knowledge. He will bring us unto a Perfect Man, as Scripture says, which isn't possible, otherwise. There's too many who aren't supplying that which their 'joint' needs to supply to reach this goal.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I agree: we are equipped. We have The Holy Spirit. He is capable of giving us abilities beyond those restricted by the laws of physics and personal knowledge. He will bring us unto a Perfect Man, as Scripture says, which isn't possible, otherwise. There's too many who aren't supplying that which their 'joint' needs to supply to reach this goal.

He is capable, but He isn't doing so. The time for such is not in this current dispensation of Grace. It's simply NOT. You are expecting what was given to the Apostles..."abilities" that were for a witness to the Jews. They required a sign.

The time of the Gentiles is a time of preaching the Gospel of Salvation. We are of the household of FAITH, and faith is NOT a matter of signs and wonders. We walk by faith not by sight, and you are simply being dishonest with yourself, and everyone who you put under this burden they cannot bear.

You are not raising the dead and healing the blind, and no other members of the body are doing so either. We aren't being fed with manna from heaven, either. Right Division, my friend.
 

bibleverse2

New member
We have The Holy Spirit. He is capable of giving us abilities beyond those restricted by the laws of physics and personal knowledge.

Amen.

For:

1 Corinthians 12:7 . . . the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

And the Holy Spirit's gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-10) which operate in Christians who have received Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 19:6, Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46) will not cease operating until Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming. For 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 means that just as only when children become adults do they put away childish things, so only when Christians become perfect when they see Jesus face to face at His Second Coming (1 John 3:2) will they no longer need Spiritual gifts such as prophecy, tongues, and the word of knowledge (1 Corinthians 12:8,10). During the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 which will just precede Jesus' Second Coming (Matthew 24:29-31), are some in the Church going to reject the ministry of God's Two Witnesses because it will involve them prophesying and performing miracles (Revelation 11:3,6)?

Because Jesus Christ's Second Coming, like the preceding Tribulation, has not happened yet, all of the Holy Spirit's gifts are still operating in the Church today, in Pentecostal congregations, and in charismatic congregations, which can be of almost any denomination. God's Word commands Christians to operate in the Spiritual gifts when Christians come together (1 Corinthians 14:26-31). So congregations today should be careful not to quench the Holy Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19) by despising prophesyings (1 Thessalonians 5:20) or forbidding all speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:39). Tongues are one of the Spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-10) through which Christians can be regularly edified (1 Corinthians 14:4-5,12,26). Not all Holy Spirit-baptized Christians will speak in tongues (1 Corinthians 12:30), but almost all will (cf. Acts 19:6, Acts 10:45-46), for tongues are one of the Holy Spirit's lesser gifts (1 Corinthians 12:28; 1 Corinthians 14:5).

Different Christians receive different kinds of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:10). Some tongues are languages which people can understand (Acts 2:4,8) while other tongues are languages which people cannot understand (1 Corinthians 14:2), not even the speakers (1 Corinthians 14:14). Unintelligible tongues could include ancient human languages which are unknown to history, ancient human languages which are known to history but are not understood, and angelic languages (1 Corinthians 13:1). Unintelligible tongues are not useless, however, for when they are prayed or sung privately to God without interpretation (1 Corinthians 14:2,28), they edify the spirits of those who speak or sing them (1 Corinthians 14:4,14-15, Jude 1:20) to bless and thank God (1 Corinthians 14:16). And when unintelligible tongues are prayed or sung out loud in a congregation and then Spiritually interpreted (1 Corinthians 12:10b-11), their interpretation edifies the whole congregation (1 Corinthians 14:5b,12-13,26). And when Christians sing in tongues to God, they are singing the "spiritual songs" which the Bible distinguishes from psalms and hymns (Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16).

The Bible sets no restrictions on how much Christians can pray and sing to God in tongues out loud at home or silently in church (1 Corinthians 14:28) (just as regular praying can be done silently: 1 Samuel 1:13,17, Nehemiah 2:4b). Indeed, the apostle Paul prayed and sung to God in tongues in private more than anyone (1 Corinthians 14:18-19). But regarding church meetings, the Bible sets strict rules on speaking tongues out loud: They are not to be spoken out loud in church meetings unless there is someone present who can Spiritually interpret them to the whole congregation (1 Corinthians 14:28). And even when a tongues-interpreter is present, at the most only three people should in turn speak out loud in unknown tongues, which should then be interpreted to the whole congregation (1 Corinthians 14:27). Everyone who has received the gift of tongues should be praying for the separate gift of the interpretation of tongues so that he or she can edify others (1 Corinthians 14:12-13; 1 Corinthians 12:10b).

--

Besides getting water baptized, Christians can get Holy Spirit baptized (Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46). They usually have to ask to receive the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13b) baptism, for it is usually not given to them automatically at the moment that they become Christians. That is why the apostle Paul at one point asked some Christians: "Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed?" (Acts 19:2).

Christians usually receive Holy Spirit baptism through prayer accompanied by the laying on of hands, subsequent to water baptism (Acts 8:15-17, Acts 19:5-6). Again, Holy Spirit baptism will not result in the speaking in tongues for everyone (1 Corinthians 12:30), but for almost everyone, as tongues are one of the Spirit's lesser gifts (1 Corinthians 12:8-11,28; 1 Corinthians 14:5). Many Christians have not yet experienced Holy Spirit baptism simply because they have not yet asked for it, under the principle of: "ye have not, because ye ask not" (James 4:2b). Many Christians have not yet asked for it because they have come under the influence of mistaken teachings which say that it is no longer in effect. Christians can get hands laid on them to receive Holy Spirit baptism at any Pentecostal-type congregation, or at any charismatic-type congregation, which can be of almost any denomination.
 

clefty

New member
Can you get any more foolish?
Looks like it, since you just keep on acting the fool.


The Jews were to bring us to God. We would not have been "doomed" as you assert.


Using scripture for reproof. Can you dig it?

John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.​

So is it good parenting that if one of the kids rejects the house chores and disobeys that the parent changes the chores and houserules for the next kid to make it easier...and then again...you know make it easier for the kids to obey?

“Oh ok...so these rules are NOT dispensed to you...as obviously they are too hard”...LOL


The jew were indeed to bring us...but they even destroyed their own brothers causing them to make idols instead of worship in His House for ALL NATIONS just jews...

Guest were invited to a wedding feast...they were too busy...so the next guest list was made...they TOO were expected to wear the wedding gown provided at the door...

But here you are claiming it isnt dispensed to you...that robe of righteousness...

Paul is clear to the Ephesians that goyim are sovereign citizens of Israel...and you would have the house divided...”oh we dont have to do that...that’s not for us”

We establish the law...not teach it was abolished or NOT FOR US
 

clefty

New member
You are being too silly and sarcastic. You are going to have to act more mature if you wish to relate to me.

Right...that’s why you wont answer what standard we are to live by...His or the world’s or man’s traditions...

You do realize that it was false witness that claimed Yahushua changed the customs delivered by Moses yes?
 

clefty

New member
Put on your big boy pants, son.

Ha...good one...

Your "logic" is that of the natural man of the flesh.

We're speaking of knowledge concerning the right division of the word of God.
right...you rapture yourself out of most of it...as if the For Yah so loved the world...did not include you yours...and that WHOSOEVER that believeth did not...well you know...follow Him His way...but had a short cut...or had extra light NO burden...or a very easy NO yoke...





Paul wrote to all believers under his dispensation of Grace.
to Timothy to be specific...you are not Timothy...or recipient of any of the his letters...despite following Roman tradition

It's not my fault that you can't see that.
Oh I see that...I also see how in the OT when the church was in the wilderness there were already strangers and foreigners saved with them...happy to be counted as His people obedient to well you know...that ONE LAW for jews and goyim alike...did you see that?

It’s in the sabbath commandment specifically...no other commandment is given to the non jew/israelite...lol

Did you see that Paul understands that grafted branches are still expected to produce fruit similar to the trunk and root...NOT “do what thou whilst you are under grace” but MORE like HIM HIS WAY

Copy me as I copy Christ...means establish Law...His...love as He loved...is keeping the Law...neat eh?

Did you see that?





Spoken like an elementary school boy trying for one-up-man-ship. :sigh:

Not all of us reject what we learned from our tutors...just rebellious ones...uncircumcised hearts and lawless minds...

Unclean first inside unclean outside follows...by their fruits they are revealed...
 
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