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  • Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
    Why did He say, "I came down from Heaven"?
    Matt 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

    James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.


    Originally posted by G
    Why did He say, "I came out from God"?
    Because he did .... so did John .... and ALL of God's prophets.
    John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.



    Originally posted by G
    Why does Paul say, He was before all things..
    It's obvious from the rest of Scripture, Jesus didn't literally exist until Bethlehem.
    BUT, Jesus IS before everyone else, in God's glory, in "preeminence":
    Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    Originally posted by G
    ...and all things were created by Him?
    Paul was discussing "thrones, principalities, powers and dominions" that were current to Paul's epistle .... things that ARE in heaven, and ARE on earth.

    Paul isn't contradicting HIMSELF or the rest of Scripture, which states beyond doubt, that Christ's GOD ... Jehovah.... created the universe;
    Isa 42:1-8 Behold, My servant, whom I uphold; My chosen, in whom My soul delighteth: I have put My spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
    2 He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street.
    3 A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth.
    4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.
    5 Thus saith God Jehovah, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth; He that spread abroad the earth and that which cometh out of it; He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
    6 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
    7 to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house.
    8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise unto graven images.

    Acts 4:24-30 And they, when they heard it, lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, O Lord, thou that didst make the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that in them is:
    25 who by the holy spirit, (by) the mouth of our father David thy servant, didst say, Why did the Gentiles rage, And the peoples imagine vain things?
    26 The kings of the earth set themselves in array, And the rulers were gathered together, Against the Lord, and against His Anointed:
    27 for of a truth in this city against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together,
    28 to do whatsoever Thy hand and Thy council foreordained to come to pass.
    29 And now, Lord, look upon their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants to speak thy word with all boldness,
    30 while Thy stretchest forth Thy hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Thy holy servant Jesus.


    Acts 17:24-31
    24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
    25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though He needed any thing, seeing He giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
    26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
    27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after Him, and find Him, though he be not far from every one of us:
    28 For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also His offspring.
    29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
    30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
    31 Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised him from the dead.


    How do you explain away these clear, simple and direct Scriptures??

    Comment


    • The Incomparable Christ
      13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

      15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in [l]heaven.
      He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

      Jim Elliot

      Comment


      • Not only do the Scriptures directly state that Jehovah/YHVH God is the Creator, many of those same Scriptures identify Jesus as Jehovah's servant.

        Isa 42:1-8 Behold, My servant, whom I uphold; My chosen, in whom My soul delighteth: I have put My spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
        2 He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street.
        3 A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth.
        4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.
        5 Thus saith God Jehovah, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth; He that spread abroad the earth and that which cometh out of it; He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
        6 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
        7 to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house.
        8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise unto graven images.

        Acts 4:24-30 And they, when they heard it, lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, O Lord, thou that didst make the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that in them is:
        25 who by the holy spirit, (by) the mouth of our father David thy servant, didst say, Why did the Gentiles rage, And the peoples imagine vain things?
        26 The kings of the earth set themselves in array, And the rulers were gathered together, Against the Lord, and against His Anointed:
        27 for of a truth in this city against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together,
        28 to do whatsoever Thy hand and Thy council foreordained to come to pass.
        29 And now, Lord, look upon their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants to speak thy word with all boldness,
        30 while Thy stretchest forth Thy hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Thy holy servant Jesus.

        Acts 17:24-31
        24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
        25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though He needed any thing, seeing He giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
        26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
        27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after Him, and find Him, though he be not far from every one of us:
        28 For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also His offspring.
        29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
        30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
        31 Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised him from the dead.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TrevorL View Post
          There was a greater creative process in the development and maturing of Jesus' character as he grew in wisdom and at the start of his ministry he was revealed as full of grace and truth.
          Kind regards
          Trevor
          Wisdom and Grace are attributes of the Third Person of The Trinity.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
            Wisdom and Grace are attributes of the Third Person of The Trinity.
            Says no verse ever.

            Comment


            • Greetings again Apple7,
              Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
              Wisdom and Grace are attributes of the Third Person of The Trinity.
              This ignores the fact that Jesus was a human, a child that grew to maturity.

              Kind regards
              Trevor

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TrevorL View Post
                Greetings glorydaz,Another word you could have used is "understand" or "understand properly".

                Kind regards
                Trevor
                True...you have a lot of Scripture to understand properly.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by TrevorL View Post
                  Greetings again Apple7,This ignores the fact that Jesus was a human, a child that grew to maturity.

                  Kind regards
                  Trevor

                  As the God-man does not imply that He was ever created.

                  Comment


                  • delete
                    So, what?

                    believe it!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
                      Isa 54.5

                      For your Makers (plural) are your husbands (plural); Yahweh of Hosts is His name; and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of all the earth.
                      this is what it says

                      For your Maker is your husband,

                      The Lord of hosts is His name;

                      And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel;

                      He is called the God of the whole earth.

                      Show me where it say's Jehovah in any original text?
                      So, what?

                      believe it!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Dartman View Post
                        Not only do the Scriptures directly state that Jehovah/YHVH God is the Creator, many of those same Scriptures identify Jesus as Jehovah's servant.

                        [COLOR=#0000ff]Isa 42:1-8 Behold, My servant, whom I uphold; My chosen, in whom My soul delighteth: I have put My spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
                        2 He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street.
                        3 A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth.
                        4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.
                        Thus saith God Jehovah, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth; He that spread abroad the earth and that which cometh out of it; He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein
                        6 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness,
                        It does not say any of this in the original text. Jehovah is a made up name.
                        So, what?

                        believe it!

                        Comment


                        • Funny, you do not accept Jesus, but you think there is a Jehovah? Maybe you have the name mixed up?
                          So, what?

                          believe it!

                          Comment


                          • Go back to school...

                            Originally posted by Tigger 2 View Post
                            Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament, #3205, p. 349: (Yalad, 'beget') ".... Used of God, to create."


                            If you only knew how to accurately quote from a lexicon.

                            Let’s help you out with your pathetic attempt at paraphrasing, by showing what is actually written in the Lexicon of your very own choosing…

                            “Those who maintain that this word must necessarily be taken in a physical sense, as implying generation, and that in this passage the eternal generation of Christ is taught, do not appear to have considered (besides the passages in Deut. and Jer.) the words of the apostle, 1 Cor 4:15 εν γαρ χριστω ιησου δια του ευαγγελιου εγω υμας εγεννησα (Whatever difficulty might have been found in Psalm 2:7, it is cleared away by the New Test; where we learn, that it speaks of the resurrection of Christ, when He, the eternal son of God, became the first begotten of the dead…”

                            Ref: Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament, #3205, p. 349


                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ktoyou View Post
                              this is what it says

                              For your Maker is your husband,

                              The Lord of hosts is His name;

                              And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel;

                              He is called the God of the whole earth.

                              Show me where it say's Jehovah in any original text?

                              כִּ֤י בֹעֲלַ֙יִךְ֙ עֹשַׂ֔יִךְ יְהוָ֥ה צְבָאֹ֖ות שְׁמֹ֑ו וְגֹֽאֲלֵךְ֙ קְדֹ֣ושׁ יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֱלֹהֵ֥י כָל־הָאָ֖רֶץ יִקָּרֵֽא׃

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
                                כִּ֤י בֹעֲלַ֙יִךְ֙ עֹשַׂ֔יִךְ יְהוָ֥ה צְבָאֹ֖ות שְׁמֹ֑ו וְגֹֽאֲלֵךְ֙ קְדֹ֣ושׁ יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֱלֹהֵ֥י כָל־הָאָ֖רֶץ יִקָּרֵֽא׃
                                well, that is a different message to me, is it not to you? Just say that then, and not the silly stuff. Like saying Jehovah
                                So, what?

                                believe it!

                                Comment

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