NO MORE WORKS

[DougE]

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Some say that verse 6 above is saying that at one time, God saved people unto eternal life by their works, but now it is by grace. This is because the verse reads it is " no more of works", therefore, it used to be. I do not hold to this.

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

In the verses above, the meaning of "no more of works" can be found. Paul is saying that Israel sought righteousness, not by faith, but by the works of the law. Romans 11:6 is saying, the election of grace is God's determination to save those that believe by faith; faith would be based on the propitiation of Jesus. Israel stumbled at the stumblingstone of Christ. The remnant attained righteousness by faith. This righteousness is by grace, not by works. The remnant did not attain righteousness by the works of the law.

Paul stated that all of Israel were not children of God by virture of being of the seed of Abraham; Israel is counted as being the children of God thru the promise God gave through Isaac.

Rebecca had two sons, Jacob and Esau, by Isaac; God elected to chose Jacob to make the covenant.

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Election is God chosing how, and through whom, he will fulfill His purposes. God did not chose Jacob because he did good, and Esau did evil. The election of grace is not dependant on doing good or evil. The election is of grace. The election is not of works.

That is why Romans 11:6 says that it is "no more of works". The remnant attains righteousness by the election of grace. If the election is by grace, then it is no more of works. Grace has been chosen by God for righteousness. Works have been eliminated as a means of attaining righteousness.

 

[comingfrom]

But if we are elected, then we will do His works?

And he that overcomes, and keeps My works unto the end,
to him will I give power over the nations:
Revelation 2:26

And, behold, I come quickly;
and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Revelation 22:12

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you always,
even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Matthew 28:20

Bless Jesus.

 

[meshak]

But if we are elected, then we will do His works?

And he that overcomes, and keeps My works unto the end,
to him will I give power over the nations:
Revelation 2:26

And, behold, I come quickly;
and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Revelation 22:12

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you always,
even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Matthew 28:20

Bless Jesus.

they skip all simple word of Jesus teachings.

 

[comingfrom]

Thank you, Meshak.

they skip all simple word of Jesus teachings.

Not all.

I had to do a lot of work [on me], before I could find Jesus.
I had to change my ways, stop swearing and drinking, and start reading the scripture and praying.
And scripture gave me so much to learn.
Like, What is holiness? And righteousness? that the Lord in scripture asks us to be.
It gave me a lot to work on.

And then, when the Lord came (Jesus comes), He opened my eyes to the first works.
Then the real work could begin.
And His commandments became my delight.
And His commandments are not grievous.

... to cut a long testimony short.
`Paul

 

[God's Truth]

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Some say that verse 6 above is saying that at one time, God saved people unto eternal life by their works, but now it is by grace. This is because the verse reads it is " no more of works", therefore, it used to be. I do not hold to this.

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

In the verses above, the meaning of "no more of works" can be found. Paul is saying that Israel sought righteousness, not by faith, but by the works of the law. Romans 11:6 is saying, the election of grace is God's determination to save those that believe by faith; faith would be based on the propitiation of Jesus. Israel stumbled at the stumblingstone of Christ. The remnant attained righteousness by faith. This righteousness is by grace, not by works. The remnant did not attain righteousness by the works of the law.

Paul stated that all of Israel were not children of God by virture of being of the seed of Abraham; Israel is counted as being the children of God thru the promise God gave through Isaac.

Rebecca had two sons, Jacob and Esau, by Isaac; God elected to chose Jacob to make the covenant.

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Election is God chosing how, and through whom, he will fulfill His purposes. God did not chose Jacob because he did good, and Esau did evil. The election of grace is not dependant on doing good or evil. The election is of grace. The election is not of works.

That is why Romans 11:6 says that it is "no more of works". The remnant attains righteousness by the election of grace. If the election is by grace, then it is no more of works. Grace has been chosen by God for righteousness. Works have been eliminated as a means of attaining righteousness.

Paul is saying no more of the works of the law that used to clean the people.

Now only faith that Jesus' blood cleans us of the sins we repent of doing.

We still have to obey Jesus; we just don't have to get circumcised and sacrifice animals.

 

[Hawkins]

By the New Covenant, one will be judged by faith and faith alone on the judgment day. That's the point Paul was trying to make.

However, whether one's faith is the faith specified by the New Covenant can only be witnessed by the works. That's why faith without works is dead.

There are those whose deeds or works may not be well witnessed, including the handicapped or those died right after the conversion such as the thief on the cross. The judgment by Covenant is all up to Jesus. He can judge by what's in human hearts, thus He will give everyone a fair judgement even under the special circumstances that a person's deeds or works cannot be witnessed.

 

[God's Truth]

Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone, see James.

We have to have faith and do something! Even the demons believe and do something. How much more are we than demons.

Even the thief did what we are told to do.

The thief on the cross humbled himself, feared God, believed in Jesus, admitted his sins, repented of his sins, confessed Jesus in front of others, and called on Jesus and showed that he will wait for the Lord.

 

[comingfrom]

Thank you, DougE.

Paul is saying no more of the works of the law that used to clean the people.

I don't believe this.

I believe St Paul was saying to believe in Jesus, and to keep all God's words.
If your faith isn't in the word, then what is it in?
Carnal blood?

Now only faith that Jesus' blood cleans us of the sins we repent of doing.

Jesus is the word of God,
so the word is Jesus' flesh and blood.
God's word is what we must eat and drink, for life.

We still have to obey Jesus; we just don't have to get circumcised and sacrifice animals.

Again, Jesus the man was the word come in the flesh.
The living spirit Jesus is still God's word.

So circumcise your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
And bring your bullocks to the Lord, which you now bring before men.

If you can offer them up for us, why not offer them up to the Lord?

To the end that the children of Israel may bring their sacrifices, which they offer in the open field,
even that they may bring them unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation,
unto the Priest, and offer them for peace offerings unto the LORD.
Leviticus 17:5

 

[God's Truth]

Thank you, DougE.


I don't believe this.

I believe St Paul was saying to believe in Jesus, and to keep all God's words.
If your faith isn't in the word, then what is it in?
Carnal blood?



Jesus is the word of God,
so the word is Jesus' flesh and blood.
God's word is what we must eat and drink, for life.


Again, Jesus the man was the word come in the flesh.
The living spirit Jesus is still God's word.

So circumcise your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
And bring your bullocks to the Lord, which you now bring before men.

If you can offer them up for us, why not offer them up to the Lord?

To the end that the children of Israel may bring their sacrifices, which they offer in the open field,
even that they may bring them unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation,
unto the Priest, and offer them for peace offerings unto the LORD.
Leviticus 17:5

You are wrong. We are not to sacrifice animals to God. Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb of God once and for all.

P.S. I am not DougE.

 

[DougE]

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Ephesians 1:7

We have forgiveness of all sin; not just sin we repent of.

We should repent of sin because we are dead in Christ, and should live unto Him; and because we have forgiveness.

 

[clefty]

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Some say that verse 6 above is saying that at one time, God saved people unto eternal life by their works, but now it is by grace. This is because the verse reads it is " no more of works", therefore, it used to be. I do not hold to this.

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

In the verses above, the meaning of "no more of works" can be found. Paul is saying that Israel sought righteousness, not by faith, but by the works of the law. Romans 11:6 is saying, the election of grace is God's determination to save those that believe by faith; faith would be based on the propitiation of Jesus. Israel stumbled at the stumblingstone of Christ. The remnant attained righteousness by faith. This righteousness is by grace, not by works. The remnant did not attain righteousness by the works of the law.

Paul stated that all of Israel were not children of God by virture of being of the seed of Abraham; Israel is counted as being the children of God thru the promise God gave through Isaac.

Rebecca had two sons, Jacob and Esau, by Isaac; God elected to chose Jacob to make the covenant.

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

Election is God chosing how, and through whom, he will fulfill His purposes. God did not chose Jacob because he did good, and Esau did evil. The election of grace is not dependant on doing good or evil. The election is of grace. The election is not of works.

That is why Romans 11:6 says that it is "no more of works". The remnant attains righteousness by the election of grace. If the election is by grace, then it is no more of works. Grace has been chosen by God for righteousness. Works have been eliminated as a means of attaining righteousness.

Through out the OT it was never salvation by works...by FAITH...read Hebrews 11

The Hebrews were in fact saved not for what they did but for His covenant with their forefather Abraham...

They were saved by faith first...and THEN given the Law and works to do BECAUSE THEY WERE SAVED

That passover night they had faith first then obeyed a command to put blood on their doors...not one hebrew was asked if they were obedient to the laws they were not yet given...but by faith they were saved first and then given the laws...

If there are no more works or just works for special elect how come Acts 15 the crowding goyim were given 4 things to do in order to merely fellowship with the jews in the synagogue...

3 of these 4 were dietary laws already required of goyim even in the OT...

James concludes these goyim would then continue to hear the Law as Moses would continue to be read every Sabbath in every city...so these goyim would continue to hear what His people did...

And so the goyim were grafted INTO Israel and thus did as Israel does...JUST LIKE IN THE OT when it was ONE LAW for both native and goyim alike...in that church in the wilderness...

Faith first and then works...is not dead...If you love me...keep my commandments...

Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua...

What faith did Yahushua have Buddhism? Muslim?...

 

[comingfrom]

You are wrong. We are not to sacrifice animals to God. Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb of God once and for all.

I never said to sacrifice animals to God.
But I believe we must offer our self up a suckling lamb (as Jesus did).
And we should bring Him our bullocks.

Else, how shall God impute His righteousness?

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit:
a broken and a contrite heart, O God, Thou wilt not despise.
Psalm 51:17

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,
that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God,
which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:1

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
1 Peter 2:2-3

Praise Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

I never said to sacrifice animals to God.
But I believe we must offer our self up a suckling lamb (as Jesus did).
And we should bring Him our bullocks.

Else, how shall God impute His righteousness?

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit:
a broken and a contrite heart, O God, Thou wilt not despise.
Psalm 51:17

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,
that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God,
which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:1

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
1 Peter 2:2-3

Praise Jesus.

You are the one who went against me for saying we don't have to clean ourselves by doing the old purification works of the law.

 

[God's Truth]

Paul is saying no more of the works of the law that used to clean the people.

I don't believe this.

You said you don't believe it when I said Paul said no more works of the law that used to clean the people.

 

[God's Truth]

Through out the OT it was never salvation by works...by FAITH...read Hebrews 11

The old law was NOT based on faith.

Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."

The Hebrews were in fact saved not for what they did but for His covenant with their forefather Abraham...

Abraham had to get circumcised in the flesh.

The covenant that would be based on faith and not on circumcision was a promise for the future.

They were saved by faith first...and THEN given the Law and works to do BECAUSE THEY WERE SAVED

That passover night they had faith first then obeyed a command to put blood on their doors...not one hebrew was asked if they were obedient to the laws they were not yet given...but by faith they were saved first and then given the laws...

They all died in the desert and did NOT get to see the promised land because they did not obey.


Joshua 5:6 The Israelites had moved about in the wilderness forty years until all the men who were of military age when they left Egypt had died, since they had not obeyed the LORD. For the LORD had sworn to them that they would not see the land he had solemnly promised their ancestors to give us, a land flowing with milk and honey.

If there are no more works or just works for special elect how come Acts 15 the crowding goyim were given 4 things to do in order to merely fellowship with the jews in the synagogue...

3 of these 4 were dietary laws already required of goyim even in the OT...

Jesus told his disciples to do what the Pharisees and teachers of the law said because they sat in Moses seat. The temple was still standing and the Pharisees enforced the law.

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples: 2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach

James concludes these goyim would then continue to hear the Law as Moses would continue to be read every Sabbath in every city...so these goyim would continue to hear what His people did...

And so the goyim were grafted INTO Israel and thus did as Israel does...JUST LIKE IN THE OT when it was ONE LAW for both native and goyim alike...in that church in the wilderness...

No uncircumcised person could go to the temple.

Faith first and then works...is not dead...If you love me...keep my commandments...

Faith alone is dead and is never the most important faith ever known, it is dead.

 

[clefty]

The old law was NOT based on faith.

right the faith was based on the law...have faith first and then the law to live that life of faith...

Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."

and who does them to live? Those who have the faith...duh

Abraham had to get circumcised in the flesh.

he was chosen first and by faith ALLOWED himself to be circumcised...you really think circumcision SAVED? You are a judaizer indeed...that is exactly what they taught...how can something done to you on the 8th day SAVE YOU...is why we dont infant baptize...that is not a choice the infant makes but the parent for it...

The covenant that would be based on faith and not on circumcision was a promise for the future.

future? they had faith they were of Abraham’s seed...thus signed into the covenant...and were saved from egypt

They all died in the desert and did NOT get to see the promised land

they had faith and were saved from egypt...they LOST FAITH and disobeyed...NEVER WAS IT ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...gotta keep faith ya dig?

because they did not obey.

right and that because they did NOT have faith first so disobeyed...like Yahushua explained it’s not the swine meat going into the mouth that makes the man unclean but that already because he is already unclean inside he allows the swine meat to go into his mouth...got it?

Joshua 5:6 The Israelites had moved about in the wilderness forty years until all the men who were of military age when they left Egypt had died, since they had not obeyed the LORD. For the LORD had sworn to them that they would not see the land he had solemnly promised their ancestors to give us, a land flowing with milk and honey.

yup obedience is works...faith compelled works...the roots give fruits...inspect the fruits know the roots...

Yup once saved ain’t no guarantee you are in buddy...persevere...overcome...hold fast...run the race...dont return to your vomit...stay true...keep the faith...retain the first love...

Jesus told his disciples to do what the Pharisees and teachers of the law said because they sat in Moses seat. The temple was still standing and the Pharisees enforced the law.

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples: 2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach

yup...if you love Him keep His commandments...it’s just not faith alone...faith and works is not dead...but following Him HIS WAY HIS WORKS...

No uncircumcised person could go to the temple.

during that time the church was in the wilderness there wasnt even a temple...and only the priests could go into the tabernacle...and yet

“If an alien sojourns with you, or one who may be among you throughout your generations, and he wishes to make an offering by fire, as a soothing aroma to the LORD, JUST AS YOU DO SO SHALL HE DO” Numbers 15:14

Neat eh? Just think the church from the time of the wilderness was NEVER divided...ONE PEOPLE ONE LAW...by faith...still that way

Faith alone is dead and is never the most important faith ever known, it is dead.

That’s another gospel...different than the one Peter and Paul taught...which is faith IN HIM then works His Works...do this and live and NOW even after the first death..

 

[comingfrom]

You are the one who went against me for saying we don't have to clean ourselves by doing the old purification works of the law.

I didn't go against you, I was defending myself from your statement,
which falsely implied I said to sacrifice animals.

I see that God's word says to do all the words of His law.

Gather the people together,
men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates,
that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God,
and observe to do all the words of this law:
Deuteronomy 31:12

Paul is saying no more of the works of the law that used to clean the people.

So many say.

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;
but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Ephesians 5:26-27

You said you don't believe it when I said Paul said no more works of the law that used to clean the people.

Many say Paul said this and that, so they end up not doing what Jesus said.
I chose to not go that way.

For circumcision verily profits, if thou keep the law:
but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Romans 2:25

I don't want to be made unborn again.

 

[God's Truth]

right the faith was based on the law...have faith first and then the law to live that life of faith...

No. There were Jews who had faith and Jews that did not have faith.
All the Jews had to do is the purification works of the law.

and who does them to live? Those who have the faith...duh

They did not all have faith. God said that He was going to make a new covenant based on faith. Don’t you know that before Jesus started his earthly ministry God cut off and hardened the Jews who did not already belong to him by faith?

 

[God's Truth]

he was chosen first and by faith ALLOWED himself to be circumcised...you really think circumcision SAVED?

Obeying God is what saves.

Abraham believed and OBEYED God BEFORE the scripture speaking of Abraham's faith:

Genesis 12:1
Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; 4 So Abram went, as the Lord had told him; and Lot went with him.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.


And even after Abraham obeyed and had faith, his faith was TESTED.

You are a judaizer indeed...that is exactly what they taught...how can something done to you on the 8th day SAVE YOU...is why we dont infant baptize...that is not a choice the infant makes but the parent for it...

Why would you call me a judaizer when I say the purification works of the law doesn't save anymore? Why do you think that Moses’ wife circumcised their son?

 

[God's Truth]

future? they had faith they were of Abraham’s seed...thus signed into the covenant...and were saved from Egypt

Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

they had faith and were saved from egypt...they LOST FAITH and disobeyed...NEVER WAS IT ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...gotta keep faith ya dig?

They didn’t have faith. They grumbled and complained.

Numbers 14:2 All the Israelites grumbled against Moses and Aaron, and the whole assembly said to them, "If only we had died in Egypt! Or in this wilderness!

right and that because they did NOT have faith first so disobeyed...like Yahushua explained it’s not the swine meat going into the mouth that makes the man unclean but that already because he is already unclean inside he allows the swine meat to go into his mouth...got it?

It is always about obeying God. It is about obeying God and whether He just says to not eat fruit from a certain tree, or to get circumcised, or to repent of your sins.