Can a Jew be saved without believing the Trinity?
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
Greetings Jacob,
Kind regards
Trevor
I commend you on your rejection of the Trinity, and I suggest that anyone who has a proper understanding of the OT basis of the NT would also reject the Trinity. I believe that there is One God the Father, and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Kind regards
Trevor
God is our Father and the Father of Jesus Christ who is the only begotten Son of God. Any problem with this?
Thank you. I think that you got it right.
Greetings again Jacob,
Kind regards
Trevor
There is no problem with the statement that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, but there is a wide range of opinion of what this represents. For my part, I believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God because God was his Father in the conception and birth process, while Mary was his mother Luke 1:34-35. Jesus was also the Son of God because of his spiritual development from a child Luke 2:40, 52 until his ministry when he was revealed as the Son of God, full of grace and truth John 1:14. He is also the Son of God because of his resurrection unto glory Romans 1:1-4, and is now seated at the right hand of God the Father Psalm 110:1 awaiting the time when God will send him back to the earth to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth Acts 1:11, 3:19-21, Isaiah 2:1-4, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14.
Kind regards
Trevor
Again thank you for your post. I read all the scripture and I value the wisdom in your statements. I cannot agree with everything due to my lack of knowledge. I do not know where or how to disagree. For example, will there be a Kingdom of God upon the earth? Do we ever call Jesus the Son of God and not say the only begotten Son of God?
Greetings again Jacob,
Kind regards
Trevor
I suggest that some of these decisions are made over time, after careful comparison of differing views. I believe that there will be a Kingdom of God upon the earth, and not only base this upon the previous quotations but many others, for example the sequence in Ezekiel 38-39, 40-48. Also some view such terms "the Son of God" and "the only begotten Son of God" differently to how I understand these terms. Many do not connect "only begotten" with the conception and birth of Jesus. The two phrases have a range of meaning, partially overlapping, but "only begotten" has reference to the process of his birth as a human.
Kind regards
Trevor
Fair enough. Learning the details of what you are saying would be interesting to me if you have the time to teach them.
What does being a Jew have to do with it? - NOTHING!
All have sinned and are in need of a savior.
God became a man, whom we call Jesus, and died as an atoning sacrifice for sin.
Those who believe that and call upon Jesus to be their savior and believe that God raise Him from the dead will be saved.
This applies both to the Jew and the gentile alike.
Notice no mention of the Trinity. There are hundreds of biblical truths that are just as absolutely true as the sky is blue but that one is not required to believe in order to be saved.
Resting in Him,
Clete
All good!
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
A Sadducee can't be saved. Sadducees don't believe that God raises the dead.
All Sadducees believe that?
Does saved mean that your sins are forgiven? And then you will be resurrected? Or, all people will be resurrected?
Edit correction you said don't believe.
Greetings again Jacob and Greetings Clete,
Acts 8:5–12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Kind regards
Trevor
I suggest that this is a long process, and you need to do some of the ground work yourself, by reading and trying to understand various parts of the Bible including the preaching by the Apostles in The Acts. One starting point is to fill in the detail of what Philip preached to the Samaritans, by comparing and expanding “the things concerning the Name of Jesus Christ” and “the things concerning the Kingdom of God” from the details given in the detailed speeches by Peter in Acts 2 and Acts 3 and Paul’s speech in Acts 13.
Acts 8:5–12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Your summary of what is required appears to be far short of the example of Philip’s preaching and what the Samaritans believed. Firstly you have not mentioned the Kingdom of God, let alone the things concerning the Kingdom of God. Also I disagree with your “God became a man” as Jesus is the Son of God, and I question whether your “died as an atoning sacrifice for sin” agrees with “the things concerning the name of Jesus Christ”. Thus the two major categories of the preaching of the Apostles and disciples are not covered by your summary.
Kind regards
Trevor
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Mt22:23KJV Ac23:8KJV :idunno:
Being saved means: Does the idea of Jesus rising from the dead, that He is not dead, make you happy and joyful? If yes, would you like to believe that He is risen from the dead, that He is not dead? If you do, and you believe that Jesus is risen from the dead, then you are saved, and you will be saved. That's what 'saved' means. If you are clear on that, we can discuss other things, but you led this part of your post with 'Does saved mean...' and that's more important than whatever else you're asking.
OK.
Thank you. Yes, from Matthew 5 I know that Jesus preached the kingdom of heaven.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Hebrews 10:4 KJV
Hebrews 10:14 KJV
Hebrews 10:17 KJV
Hebrews 10:39 KJV
Explain what.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Sadducees can't be saved.
Okay. I wanted to understand the verse.
Let's be clear as crystal, right off the bat.
You are not saved. If you die today, you will spend the rest of eternity paying your own sin debt by yourself.
I don't know what odd ball flavor of Christianity you've been exposed to but if you deny the deity of Christ, you're not even a Christian, never mind a saved one.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 8:23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 8:23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
I invite you to read this short post that John W wrote in another thread....
The "kinsman redeemer" concept explains why the Lord Jesus Christ must be God, to be qualified to redeem.
According to the Old Testament laws regarding punishment and retribution for a crime(sin), when one was assaulted, robbed, murdered...., the responsibility to bring the criminal to justice and to protect the lives/property of the relatives fell to the nearest "kinsman". This responsibility/obligation was referred to as "redeeming", and the man who had this role was called a "redeemer"('goel' in Hebrew). Thus, the LORD God would use this object lesson to teach that redemption(to buy back/release for the purpose of setting free) is provided by a kinsman redeemer. The kinsman redeemer is someone who is qualified to execute the law of redemption-he is qualified to pay the price of debt. This kinsman redeemer of the Old Testament was a "type" of the Lord Jesus Christ as the Redeemer. There were 4 requirements for redemption, one being:
The redeemer must not be compromised by his predicament, i.e., the redeemer must be free from that which caused the need for redemption. Thus, the redeemer could not redeem himself. No slave, for example, could redeem another slave. A person in bondage was in no position to redeem another. This explains the virgin conception. This REQUIRES that the redeemer be God. The Lord Jesus Christ "...knew no sin...."(2 Cor. 5:21 KJV-see also 1 John 3:5 KJV, 1 Peter 2:22 KJV, Hebrews 4:15 KJV , John 8:46 KJV, Exodus 12:5 KJV="YOUR LAMB SHALL BE WITHOUT BLEMISH(emphasis mine)". Only God fits this REQUIREMENT. - link to original post
According to the Old Testament laws regarding punishment and retribution for a crime(sin), when one was assaulted, robbed, murdered...., the responsibility to bring the criminal to justice and to protect the lives/property of the relatives fell to the nearest "kinsman". This responsibility/obligation was referred to as "redeeming", and the man who had this role was called a "redeemer"('goel' in Hebrew). Thus, the LORD God would use this object lesson to teach that redemption(to buy back/release for the purpose of setting free) is provided by a kinsman redeemer. The kinsman redeemer is someone who is qualified to execute the law of redemption-he is qualified to pay the price of debt. This kinsman redeemer of the Old Testament was a "type" of the Lord Jesus Christ as the Redeemer. There were 4 requirements for redemption, one being:
The redeemer must not be compromised by his predicament, i.e., the redeemer must be free from that which caused the need for redemption. Thus, the redeemer could not redeem himself. No slave, for example, could redeem another slave. A person in bondage was in no position to redeem another. This explains the virgin conception. This REQUIRES that the redeemer be God. The Lord Jesus Christ "...knew no sin...."(2 Cor. 5:21 KJV-see also 1 John 3:5 KJV, 1 Peter 2:22 KJV, Hebrews 4:15 KJV , John 8:46 KJV, Exodus 12:5 KJV="YOUR LAMB SHALL BE WITHOUT BLEMISH(emphasis mine)". Only God fits this REQUIREMENT. - link to original post
Now, as for aspects of Christian doctrine that I didn't mention, there are, as I said in my first post, many biblical truths that I made no mention of, a great many of which are indeed part of what is "the gospel" in that they are truths that apply to people who are saved. But there is a difference between all the things that are true of those who are saved and those things that one must understand and believe in order to get saved.
The fact that we are identified in Christ as believers is a terrific example of one of these truths. It is a richly deep doctrine full of all sorts of things that have to do with a Christian having a successful daily walk that both the believer and the Lord Himself can be proud of, but it not a doctrine that anyone need hear one syllable about in order to cross over from being unsaved to being saved. It is a truth that can be understood later. There are bunches of such truths, lots and lots of them, enough that you could spend several life times studying them out. (Not the least of which is the doctrine of the Trinity, by the way.)
Resting in Him,
Clete