Jesus only needs to be the only begotten Son of God to have never sinned.
Robert's Gospel According to the Apostle Paul
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Rosenritter
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You aren't supposed to try to be grafted into Israel of old. Israel itself needs to be grafted in.
Romans 11:21-25 KJV
(21) For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
(22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
(23) And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
(24) For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
(25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
The olive tree is God and Christ (same thing) and we are the branches. There is no life outside of that tree. You should graft yourself to the tree (the source of life) not onto the branches which have been cut off.
You have an interesting perspective.
Rosenritter
New member
If Jesus is not God then how can he forgive your sins? Considering that "all have sinned" we certainly all need forgiveness from He who judges the quick and the dead. You need to be forgiven by the one who judges.
Luke 5:20-21 KJV
(20) And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
(21) And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
And who is the judge?
2 Timothy 4:1 KJV
(1) I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
John 5:21-23 KJV
(21) For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
(22) For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
(23) That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Psalms 82:1, 8 KJV
(1) A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
(8) Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Again, who is it that inherits all nations at his kingdom and his coming?
God appointed Jesus to be the judge. I can forgive sin, but not the way that Jesus the only begotten Son of God can.
Rosenritter
New member
That wasn't a unique perspective: I was merely repeating Paul from Romans. So my question (for you) is where are you? Do you consider yourself Christian? Are you bible-believing (in its entirety) or do you only accept portions of scripture?
Rosenritter
New member
You can forgive sins against yourself and lift the penalty that you would normally be able to inflict upon someone, but all sin is against God as well, and only God can forgive sin against God. If Jesus isn't God then any forgiveness of sins through him is worthless in the end.... just as worthless as if you or I were to claim to forgive sins against God.
I accept the Tanakh. I have defended the Bible as inspired and inerrant. I do not know why there is more than one list of apostles. But that may create a problem.
Incorrect.
If you think that your salvation is dependent upon you obeying Jesus, then you are under the law and will be judged by the law and condemned.
Obedience is of faith or the person is not saved. Salvation is not dependent on works.
Rosenritter
New member
If you accept the Bible as inspired and inerrant then why would you say that Jesus is someone other than God (such as bears to the discussion of how Jesus could be without sin if "all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God" and the importance Jesus directly forgiving sin?)
John 1:1 KJV
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 KJV
(14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
(16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
--- and again ---
Isaiah 44:6 KJV
(6) Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Revelation 1:17-18 KJV
(17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
(18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 22:12-16 KJV
(12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
(13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(16) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
... but what do you mean but more than one list of apostles?
Jesus can forgive sins. This is not something that only God can do.
The two lists were Matthew and Luke, but there is one in Mark and Acts too I hear.
glorydaz
Well-known member
If you can't even understand what I was saying, then these silly attempts to mislead others can only be counted as wilful ignorance, rather than malicious intent....I'm supposing. Once again I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
It's your use of the commandment as a producer of righteousness that I find fault with.
The command to love your neighbor as yourself......tell me exactly how you carry out that out. :chew:
In Him there is no more jew...as jews reject their god had a son
Oh and BTW those special hats are not biblical and just another one of their traditions...
We believers however are grafted into Israel who received instruction as how to live once we by faith are saved...
Do these and live...here and here after...
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Rosenritter
New member
You might forgive someone of their offense against yourself, but all sin is against God, and only God can forgive sins against God. This is not only common sense, but it is also stated in scripture (previously cited.) When Jesus forgave sins against God it was just another of the ways that he declared himself as equal to God. The Jews of that day recognized it and were upset for that very reason.
If you are dealing with an actual question that is on your mind regarding bible integrity you should be able to phrase the problem precisely?
Why are the lists of apostles different?
Your obedience is flawed, Roman 3:23. Right, salvation is not dependent on works, nor is it dependent on obedience. Salvation is dependent upon the work and the person of Jesus Christ. This salvation becomes ours by faith alone, apart from works and obedience.
When obedience is works there is a problem. A person can obey or disobey, but they should obey. Sometimes there is inactivity. Once a person is saved there should not be any problem with their obedience, but it may be or may become performance based, which is not good.
Ephesians 2:8, 9.
Rosenritter
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