Jews And Gentiles Same Goal

[glorydaz]

"Repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" is confession of the Lord Jesus belief in what He is and what He represents, including (but not exclusively limited to) that God raised him from the dead for our salvation. There' s more than one way to approach the same subject.

No, it isn't. It relates solely to the fact that Jesus is the promised Messiah. Peter speaks to the men of Israel....

Acts 3:19-20 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.​

This is not the Gospel of Grace that Paul preached to the Gentiles. The death, burial, and resurrection has nothing to do with these words to the Jews.

 

[glorydaz]

Everyone who has ever been saved down through history has been saved by grace through faith, even those who lived under the law:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Really? Maybe it was a mystery. Maybe that's why the twelve didn't preach it. Maybe that's why the risen Lord revealed it to Paul. Maybe that's why there is more than the one Gospel.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

 

[Squeaky]

We start out in grade school. The we go to junior high. Then we go to high school.
Now they teach things in grade school that will be later changed in junior high. So why do they do that? Because the grade school just wouldnt understand the message. The first thing they learn in grade school is the difference between numbers and letters. And they teach them they dont mix. You just keep them separate. Letters are used for words to communicate with one another. You cant communicate with numbers. Letters are for english. Numbers are for mathematics adding and subtracting numbers. They do this because they know from experience how confusing it can be for a child. But when the child gets to junior high they find out about algebra. Where you do math with numbers and letters. Because then hopfully they can deal with it.
That is the same pattern that God uses in the bible. As children we start out with just faith in Jesus that He is doing it for us. And we look for the Holy Spirit that Jesus told us He would send to us to teach us.
Now here comes the Holy Spirit quoting verses. And He now tells us that we must be a doer of the Word and not just a hearer of the Word. Now we must get into the works of the new testament.That is where many christians fall, or start lying to themselves and saying all we need is faith. They just cant make that transition. Some move into the meat understanding while the weak fall short and stay in the milk. This is why the gospel was given to us in parts or portions.

[Jas 3:13
[13] Who [is] wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct [that] his works [are done] in the meekness of wisdom.

[Jas 2:14, 17-18, 20-22, 24, 26
[14] What [does it] profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? ...
[17] Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
[18] But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. ...
[20] But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
[22] Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? ...
[24] You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. ...
[26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[Rosenritter]

I said
Some of the people in here dont really understand repentance. I have went around and around with them about this. One guy had been in the bible for years and he told me he did repent when he started. Away back when. They dont understand the truth will bring out repentance daily. And we need it. I asked him why he didnt repent daily when God says He will forgive us 490 times a day if we repent. He never answered my question.

[Mat 18:21-22
[21] Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
[22] Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

Something like "I repented once and that was enough and I'll never do it again?"

 

[Rosenritter]

Who is Peter asking to repent and what are they to repent of?

Act 2:36-38 KJV Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (37) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

(Hint: the correct answers are Israel and the rejection of Jesus Christ).

Even by your twisted standard that tosses out half the scripture at any given time, who is Paul speaking to here?

2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV
(10) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

 

[Rosenritter]

And the prophets bore witness to the coming Messiah. I'm wondering why you changed remission to forgiveness.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.​

He doesn't always strictly use King James.

Acts 10:43 Tyndale
(43) To him geve all the Prophetes witnes that thorowe his name shall receave remission of synnes all that beleve in him.

Acts 10:43 Bishops
(43) To hym geue all the prophetes witnesse, that through his name whosoeuer beleueth in hym, shall receaue remission of sinnes.

Acts 10:43 Geneva
(43) To him also giue all the Prophets witnesse, that through his Name all that beleeue in him, shall receiue remission of sinnes.

Those three (above) are almost the same as the King James and they also used the word remission. It seems to be a synonym.

 

[Rosenritter]

No, it isn't. It relates solely to the fact that Jesus is the promised Messiah. Peter speaks to the men of Israel....

Acts 3:19-20 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.​

This is not the Gospel of Grace that Paul preached to the Gentiles. The death, burial, and resurrection has nothing to do with these words to the Jews.

The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ has nothing to do with how they spoke to the Jews? Are you serious? You expected them to simply forget these words that were used to bring them to baptism?

Acts 2:21-32 KJV
(21) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
(22) Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
(23) Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
(24) Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
(25) For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
(26) Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
(27) Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
(28) Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
(29) Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
(30) Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
(31) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
(32) This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 2:36-38 KJV
(36) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
(37) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


How am I supposed to take anything you say seriously? Do you know what "Grace" means (it seems not.) For that matter, why am I listening to anyone who refuses to give a clear answer to questions like these?

1. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love God" and does this change manifest itself in your life?
2. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and does this change manifest itself in your life?
3. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love thy enemies" and does this change manifest itself in your life?
4. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love one another" and does this change manifest itself in your life?

 

[Right Divider]

Even by your twisted standard that tosses out half the scripture at any given time, who is Paul speaking to here?

2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV
(10) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Another childish attempt to AVOID answering the question... Instead of answering... you ask a question.

Stick to Acts 2 for a moment, spin doctor..

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Really?

Yes, really. Here Paul makes it plain that those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Since it is by grace then it cannot be of works. Paul also wrote the following:

"since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith" (Ro.3:30).​

The testimony of Peter concerning his own salvation bears witness to the fact that he was saved by the grace of God in the same way as the Gentiles:

"God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us...We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:8,11).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And the prophets bore witness to the coming Messiah. I'm wondering why you changed remission to forgiveness.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.​

I didn't change it. It came that way with the translation which I used. In both cases they mean exactly the same thing.

 

[Rosenritter]

Even by your twisted standard that tosses out half the scripture at any given time, who is Paul speaking to here?

2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV
(10) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

1) Peter was not speaking to Israel. He was speaking to his audience which included at least three thousand souls, probably more, but somewhat less than Israel. Since you want to play games and claim that scripture is only directed to certain people, let's be just as specific.

2) Those to whom Peter preached needed to repent of all sin, not only a certain sin as you allege and/or imply. The particular sin that was used to grab their attention was the rejection and crucifixion of the prophesied Messiah and their LORD. Even then it is likely that most of the people in the audience had nothing to do with the crucifixion, so I suppose that they had nothing to repent of, by your measure?

 

[glorydaz]

Something like "I repented once and that was enough and I'll never do it again?"

Give your definition of repent. opcorn:

 

[glorydaz]

He doesn't always strictly use King James.

Spoiler

Acts 10:43 Tyndale
(43) To him geve all the Prophetes witnes that thorowe his name shall receave remission of synnes all that beleve in him.

Acts 10:43 Bishops
(43) To hym geue all the prophetes witnesse, that through his name whosoeuer beleueth in hym, shall receaue remission of sinnes.

Acts 10:43 Geneva
(43) To him also giue all the Prophets witnesse, that through his Name all that beleeue in him, shall receiue remission of sinnes.

Those three (above) are almost the same as the King James and they also used the word remission. It seems to be a synonym.

It might seem to be a synonym, but the remission of sins was used by Peter when he was addressing "all the house of Israel". Acts 2:36 Acts 2:38

When cancer goes into remission it is not eradicated. Peter speaks of the "times of refreshing" that their sins would be blotted out. So, seems like there is a difference to me.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.​

Paul, on the other hand, preaches forgiveness of sin when we believe. There is no waiting.

Colossians 1:14 Colossians 2:13 Ephesians 4:32

 

[glorydaz]

1) Peter was not speaking to Israel. He was speaking to his audience which included at least three thousand souls, probably more, but somewhat less than Israel. Since you want to play games and claim that scripture is only directed to certain people, let's be just as specific.

2) Those to whom Peter preached needed to repent of all sin, not only a certain sin as you allege and/or imply. The particular sin that was used to grab their attention was the rejection and crucifixion of the prophesied Messiah and their LORD. Even then it is likely that most of the people in the audience had nothing to do with the crucifixion, so I suppose that they had nothing to repent of, by your measure?

Where do you see "repent of sins"? Or where do you see repent of all sins?

I'm thinking your understanding of repentance is off.

 

[glorydaz]

The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ has nothing to do with how they spoke to the Jews? Are you serious? You expected them to simply forget these words that were used to bring them to baptism?

Try reading what I wrote, and what I was referring to before you go off half cocked.

Spoiler

Acts 2:21-32 KJV
(21) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
(22) Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
(23) Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
(24) Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
(25) For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
(26) Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
(27) Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
(28) Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
(29) Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
(30) Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
(31) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
(32) This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 2:36-38 KJV
(36) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
(37) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

How am I supposed to take anything you say seriously?

Try. I have to try with you.

Do you know what "Grace" means (it seems not.)

I do. Do you know what "repent" means?

For that matter, why am I listening to anyone who refuses to give a clear answer to questions like these?

1. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love God" and does this change manifest itself in your life?
2. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and does this change manifest itself in your life?
3. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love thy enemies" and does this change manifest itself in your life?
4. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love one another" and does this change manifest itself in your life?

These are the questions you insist I answer?

Fine. No, I do not attempt to do what I know only God can do in and through me.

Are you suggesting I boast about how wonderful I am? :shocked:

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, really. Here Paul makes it plain that those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Since it is by grace then it cannot be of works. Paul also wrote the following:

"since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith" (Ro.3:30).​

The testimony of Peter concerning his own salvation bears witness to the fact that he was saved by the grace of God in the same way as the Gentiles:

"God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us...We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:8,11).​

Jerry, don't stop at the first word when you quote me. You miss the entire point I was making. And I'm surprised since you seem quite adept when you speak about the mystery Paul preached.

 

[glorydaz]

I didn't change it. It came that way with the translation which I used. In both cases they mean exactly the same thing.

So you're saying the times of refreshing means nothing?

 

[Squeaky]

Give your definition of repent. opcorn:

I said
[2Co 7:8-11
[8] For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while.
[9] Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing.
[10] For godly sorrow produces repentance [leading] to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
[11] For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, [what] clearing [of yourselves], [what] indignation, [what] fear, [what] vehement desire, [what] zeal, [what] vindication! In all [things] you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

 

[glorydaz]

I said
[2Co 7:8-11
[8] For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while.
[9] Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing.
[10] For godly sorrow produces repentance [leading] to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
[11] For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, [what] clearing [of yourselves], [what] indignation, [what] fear, [what] vehement desire, [what] zeal, [what] vindication! In all [things] you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

That's not a definition of repentance.

 

[Squeaky]

That's not a definition of repentance.

I said
Yes it is.
but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner,