The world Christ didn't Pray for !

[beloved57]

In John 17:9 we read the words of Christ:

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Now its clear that there is a world of men here that Christ doesnt pray for verses a world of people that He does pray for "them which thou hast given me; for they are thine."

Now for one to believe that this world Christ refuses to pray for is the same world that His Father so Loved and gave Him for in Jn 3:16 is lacking in understanding. This world in Jn 17:9 which Christ refuses to pray for, cannot be that world that through Him it might be saved Jn 3:17 and yet Christ refuses to pray for it.

Now many who want to deny and avoid this unpleasant truth that Christ refused to pray for the whole world in general, but only a remnant, they'll say that later Christ does pray for the whole world in general by citing Jn 17:20-21

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

However we know that cant be true because that would totally contradict and go against what Christ just had stated earlier in Jn 17:9 making Him a double mined man.

One way of understanding scripture is to never let one portion contradict another plainly stated portion.

 

[FineLinen]

You are a single "mined" man in dire need of metamorphoo!

"If I be lifted up I will draw all mankind unto me."

Your homework assignment again today=

What does "ONLY" mean in koine? Is is malista?

Perhaps the sister word monogenes will be easier for you. What does monogenes mean?

"Good grief" says Dr. Chas. Brown (AKA Charlie Brown), what does "only" mean in English?

 

[Nanja]

In John 17:9 we read the words of Christ:

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Now its clear that there is a world of men here that Christ doesnt pray for verses a world of people that He does pray for "them which thou hast given me; for they are thine."

Now for one to believe that this world Christ refuses to pray for is the same world that His Father so Loved and gave Him for in Jn 3:16 is lacking in understanding. This world in Jn 17:9 which Christ refuses to pray for, cannot be that world that through Him it might be saved Jn 3:17 and yet Christ refuses to pray for it.

Now many who want to deny and avoid this unpleasant truth that Christ refused to pray for the whole world in general, but only a remnant, they'll say that later Christ does pray for the whole world in general by citing Jn 17:20-21

[FONT=&]20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

However we know that cant be true because that would totally contradict and go against what Christ just had stated earlier in Jn 17:9 making Him a double mined man.

One way of understanding scripture is to never let one portion contradict another plainly stated portion.[/FONT]

Amen Brother !

The world in John 17:9 that Christ did not pray for, are not part of the World of Believers John 3:16 that God Loved and Christ Died for.

For in John 17:20 Christ says they shall Believe on Him: That it surely will happen in answer to His Prayer because they shall be given the Spirit Gal. 5:22.

John 14:16-17

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world [reprobate] cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


In contrast, the reprobate world that Christ didn't pray for shall be given a strong delusion to believe what is false 2 Thes. 2:10-12.

 

[beloved57]

[h=2]The world Christ didn't Pray for ![/h]Now since it would be an obvious contradiction for the world in Jn 17:21 is the same world Christ refused to pray for in Jn 17:9 then who might be the world in Jn 17:21 be ? I believe its the world of Gods elect/sheep who shall believe on Christ through the word of His sent apostles as its stated in Vs 20 as to who it is Christ does pray for :

20 [FONT=&quot]Neither pray I for these alone, bu​t for them also which shall believe on me through their word, Christs prayer extends [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]beyond the disciples He prayed for in Vs 9 to include all who shall become believers on Christ through their word. In other words His Prayer did include the whole Sheepfold of men throughout the world even unto the end of time.

So thats the world Jesus means by the " world in Vs 21 when He says:

[/FONT]21 [FONT=&quot]That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Its merely Christ restating what He just said in Vs 20, a world that shall believe on Him through their word.

" That the world may believe that thou has sent me"

The same way Jesus said the men [disciples] believed that the Father had sent Him, because they receive His word Jn 17:8

[/FONT]8 [FONT=&quot]For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.[/FONT]

 

[Robert Pate]

In John 17:9 we read the words of Christ:

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Now its clear that there is a world of men here that Christ doesnt pray for verses a world of people that He does pray for "them which thou hast given me; for they are thine."

Now for one to believe that this world Christ refuses to pray for is the same world that His Father so Loved and gave Him for in Jn 3:16 is lacking in understanding. This world in Jn 17:9 which Christ refuses to pray for, cannot be that world that through Him it might be saved Jn 3:17 and yet Christ refuses to pray for it.

Now many who want to deny and avoid this unpleasant truth that Christ refused to pray for the whole world in general, but only a remnant, they'll say that later Christ does pray for the whole world in general by citing Jn 17:20-21

[FONT=&]20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

However we know that cant be true because that would totally contradict and go against what Christ just had stated earlier in Jn 17:9 making Him a double mined man.

One way of understanding scripture is to never let one portion contradict another plainly stated portion.[/FONT]

Your negative view of God and his Son Jesus Christ is what is going to lead to your condemnation.

 

[beloved57]

Your negative view of God and his Son Jesus Christ is what is going to lead to your condemnation.

Evasion and rabbit trail. You have a negative view of Christ death, teaching that it doesnt redeem them He died for.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Evasion and rabbit trail. You have a negative view of Christ death, teaching that it doesnt redeem them He died for.

Your ignorance of the teaching found in the Bible is warped because you just refuse to believe the truth written here:

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).​

You prove over and over that your final authority is not the Bible but instead the many false teachings found in Calvinism! You fail to recognize that the Lord justifies those who "believe God" (Ro.4:3).

Your beliefs are a denial of what the LORD God reveals in the Bible.

Wake up and smell the coffee because you ain't getting a second chance after you pass away.

 

[beloved57]

Your ignorance of the teaching found in the Bible is warped because you just refuse to believe the truth written here:

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).​

You prove over and over that your final authority is not the Bible but instead the many false teachings found in Calvinism! You fail to recognize that the Lord justifies those who "believe God" (Ro.4:3).

Your beliefs are a denial of what the LORD God reveals in the Bible.

Wake up and smell the coffee because you ain't getting a second chance after you pass away.

More evasion and rabbit trail

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[Jerry Shugart]

More evasion and rabbit trail

No, it is you who is being evasive because the author of the book of Hebrews was not being evasive!

He said that the Lord Jesus tasted death for every man but you just flat out refuse to believe him.

 

[beloved57]

No, it is you who is being evasive because the author of the book of Hebrews was not being evasive!

He said that the Lord Jesus tasted death for every man but you just flat out refuse to believe him.

More evasion and rabbit trail. Did you want to discuss the Op and following points i made ? Thats what the thread was created for.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[Bright Raven]

More evasion and rabbit trail. Did you want to discuss the Op and following points i made ? Thats what the thread was created for.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

2 Peter 3:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Nanja]

[h=2]The world Christ didn't Pray for ![/h]Now since it would be an obvious contradiction for the world in Jn 17:21 is the same world Christ refused to pray for in Jn 17:9 then who might be the world in Jn 17:21 be ? I believe its the world of Gods elect/sheep who shall believe on Christ through the word of His sent apostles as its stated in Vs 20 as to who it is Christ does pray for :

20 [FONT="]Neither pray I for these alone, [B]bu​t for them also which shall believe on me through their word,[/B] Christs prayer extends [/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][COLOR=#000000]beyond the disciples He prayed for in Vs 9 to include all who shall become believers on Christ through their word. In other words His Prayer did include the whole Sheepfold of men throughout the world even unto the end of time.

So thats the world Jesus means by the " world in Vs 21 when He says:

[/COLOR][/FONT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial][B]21 [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Its merely Christ restating what He just said in Vs 20, a world that shall believe on Him through their word.

" That the world may believe that thou has sent me"

The same way Jesus said the men [disciples] believed that the Father had sent Him, because they receive His word Jn 17:8

[/FONT]8 [FONT="]For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee,[B] and they have believed that thou didst send me.[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]


[COLOR="#006400"]Amen ! All the Elect Eph. 1:4 / Sheep given to Christ of the Father John 10:29, constitutes the World John 3:16 that Christ gave His Life for John 10:11, 15, which shall Believe on Him John 17:20.

Yet others Christ does not pray for, these shall not believe on Him John 10:26 because they were not His Sheep; and therefore were already condemned John 3:18; 36; Mat. 25:41.

 

[beloved57]

nanja

Amen ! All the Elect Eph. 1:4 / Sheep given to Christ of the Father John 10:29, constitutes the World John 3:16that Christ gave His Life for John 10:11, 15, which shall Believe on Him John 17:20.

Amen like these gentile sheep Acts 15:7

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

 

[beloved57]

So in Jn 17:9 the world Christ didnt pray for are they which never become believers in Him. We know He prayed for all who shall believe in Him as Per Jn 17:20

20 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Neither pray I for these alone[In Vs 9], [/FONT]but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Now if people dont believe in Him, Christ gives this very simple reason why earlier in Jn 10:26[/FONT]

26 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]But [/FONT]ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep,[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] as I said unto you.[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]And we know its the sheep of His that He definitely died for Jn 10:11,15[/FONT]

11 [FONT=&quot]I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

[/FONT]15 [FONT=&quot]As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.[/FONT]

 

[Nanja]

nanja



Amen like these gentile sheep Acts 15:7

[FONT=&]And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should [/FONT]hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

TY for that Scripture ! And yes, it's because they belonged to Christ from Everlasting, even before they Believed, that they were given hearing ears Prov. 20:12 in time when they were Born of God to Hear the Word of the Gospel John 8:47a and Believe Gal. 5:22.

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Nanja: You and your mentor are incredible reservoirs! The following will not apply to you both, but for the rest of us>>>

Romans Chapter 5=

This doesn't mean, of course, that we have only a hope of future joys - we can be full of joy here and now even in our trials and troubles. Taken in the right spirit these very things will give us patient endurance; this in turn will develop a mature character, and a character of this sort produces a steady hope, a hope that will never disappoint us. Already we have some experience of the love of God flooding through our hearts by the Holy Spirit given to us.

And we can see that it was while we were powerless to help ourselves that Christ died for sinful men. In human experience it is a rare thing for one man to give his life for another, even if the latter be a good man, though there have been a few who have had the courage to do it. Yet the proof of God's amazing love is this: that it was while we were sinners that Christ died for us.

Moreover, if he did that for us while we were sinners, now that we are men justified by the shedding of his blood, what reason have we to fear the wrath of God? If, while we were his enemies, Christ reconciled us to God by dying for us, surely now that we are reconciled we may be perfectly certain of our salvation through his living in us. Nor, I am sure, is this a matter of bare salvation - we may hold our heads high in the light of God's love because of the reconciliation which Christ has made.

This, then, is what happened. Sin made its entry into the world through one man, and through sin, death. The entail of sin and death passed on to the whole human race, and no one could break it for no one was himself free from sin.

Sin, you see, was in the world long before the Law, though I suppose, technically speaking, it was not "sin" where there was no law to define it. Nevertheless death, the complement of sin, held sway over mankind from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sin was quite unlike Adam's. Adam, the first man, corresponds in some degree to the man who has to come.

But the gift of God through Christ is a very different matter from the "account rendered" through the sin of Adam. For while as a result of one man's sin death by natural consequence became the common lot of men, it was by the generosity of God, the free giving of the grace of one man Jesus Christ, that the love of God overflowed for the benefit of all men.

Nor is the effect of God's gift the same as the effect of that one man's sin. For in the one case one man's sin brought its inevitable judgment, and the result was condemnation. But, in the other, countless men's sins are met with the free gift of grace, and the result is justification before God.

For if one man's offence meant that men should be slaves to death all their lives, it is a far greater thing that through another man, Jesus Christ, men by their acceptance of his more than sufficient grace and righteousness, should live all their lives like kings!

We see, then, that as one act of sin exposed the whole race of men to God's judgment and condemnation, so one act of perfect righteousness presents all men freely acquitted in the sight of God. One man's disobedience placed all men under the threat of condemnation, but one man's obedience has the power to present all men righteous before God.

Now we find that the Law keeps slipping into the picture to point the vast extent of sin. Yet, though sin is shown to be wide and deep, thank God his grace is wider and deeper still! The whole outlook changes - sin used to be the master of men and in the end handed them over to death: now grace is the ruling factor, with righteousness as its purpose and its end the bringing of men to the eternal life of God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[beloved57]

TY for that Scripture ! And yes, it's because they belonged to Christ from Everlasting, even before they Believed, that they were given hearing ears Prov. 20:12 in time when they were Born of God to Hear the Word of the Gospel John 8:47a and Believe Gal. 5:22.

Amen Sister it was for that reason they were given spiritual ears to hear spiritually the gospel of their salvation Eph 1:13

13 [FONT=&quot]In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,[/FONT]

"ye heard the gospel of your salvation ye believed"

These were some Christ prayed for in Jn 17:20

20 [FONT=&quot]Neither pray I for these alone[In Vs 9], [/FONT]but for them also which shall believe on me through their word

 

[beloved57]

Dear Nanja: You and your mentor are incredible reservoirs! The following will not apply to you both, but for the rest of us>>>

Romans Chapter 5=

This doesn't mean, of course, that we have only a hope of future joys - we can be full of joy here and now even in our trials and troubles. Taken in the right spirit these very things will give us patient endurance; this in turn will develop a mature character, and a character of this sort produces a steady hope, a hope that will never disappoint us. Already we have some experience of the love of God flooding through our hearts by the Holy Spirit given to us.

And we can see that it was while we were powerless to help ourselves that Christ died for sinful men. In human experience it is a rare thing for one man to give his life for another, even if the latter be a good man, though there have been a few who have had the courage to do it. Yet the proof of God's amazing love is this: that it was while we were sinners that Christ died for us.

Moreover, if he did that for us while we were sinners, now that we are men justified by the shedding of his blood, what reason have we to fear the wrath of God? If, while we were his enemies, Christ reconciled us to God by dying for us, surely now that we are reconciled we may be perfectly certain of our salvation through his living in us. Nor, I am sure, is this a matter of bare salvation - we may hold our heads high in the light of God's love because of the reconciliation which Christ has made.

This, then, is what happened. Sin made its entry into the world through one man, and through sin, death. The entail of sin and death passed on to the whole human race, and no one could break it for no one was himself free from sin.

Sin, you see, was in the world long before the Law, though I suppose, technically speaking, it was not "sin" where there was no law to define it. Nevertheless death, the complement of sin, held sway over mankind from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sin was quite unlike Adam's. Adam, the first man, corresponds in some degree to the man who has to come.

But the gift of God through Christ is a very different matter from the "account rendered" through the sin of Adam. For while as a result of one man's sin death by natural consequence became the common lot of men, it was by the generosity of God, the free giving of the grace of one man Jesus Christ, that the love of God overflowed for the benefit of all men.

Nor is the effect of God's gift the same as the effect of that one man's sin. For in the one case one man's sin brought its inevitable judgment, and the result was condemnation. But, in the other, countless men's sins are met with the free gift of grace, and the result is justification before God.

For if one man's offence meant that men should be slaves to death all their lives, it is a far greater thing that through another man, Jesus Christ, men by their acceptance of his more than sufficient grace and righteousness, should live all their lives like kings!

We see, then, that as one act of sin exposed the whole race of men to God's judgment and condemnation, so one act of perfect righteousness presents all men freely acquitted in the sight of God. One man's disobedience placed all men under the threat of condemnation, but one man's obedience has the power to present all men righteous before God.

Now we find that the Law keeps slipping into the picture to point the vast extent of sin. Yet, though sin is shown to be wide and deep, thank God his grace is wider and deeper still! The whole outlook changes - sin used to be the master of men and in the end handed them over to death: now grace is the ruling factor, with righteousness as its purpose and its end the bringing of men to the eternal life of God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Long rabbit trail from post theme. According to Jn 17:9 is there a world of people Christ didnt pray for ? Yes or No

 

[Nanja]

Amen Sister it was for that reason they were given spiritual ears to hear spiritually the gospel of their salvation Eph 1:13

13 [FONT="]In whom ye also trusted, after that[B] ye heard [/B]the word of truth, [B]the gospel of your salvation[/B]: in whom also after that[B] ye believed[/B], ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,[/FONT][/COLOR]

"[B]ye heard [/B][B]the gospel of your salvation [/B][B] ye believed"[/B]

These were some Christ prayed for in Jn 17:20

[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial][B]20 [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT="]Neither pray I for these alone[In Vs 9], [/FONT]but for them also which shall believe on me through their word

Exactly Brother !

 

[FineLinen]

Long rabbit trail from post theme. According to Jn 17:9 is there a world of people Christ didnt pray for ? Yes or No

Dear Mentor: There are few who would call the words of St. Paul a "rabbit trail" but you are such an incredible teacher we will leave it there!

"I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine" (John 17:9)

If you think for a nano-second God does not will, yes "will", all mankind to be saved you are sadly mistaken with a capital "S". The elect, known also as the "especially", hold a unique place in the Father & Son, & thus the "do not", however, in the same chapter we also read: "neither do I pray for these alone."

It becomes painfully obvious you neither grasp the difference between "malista" & "monon". Do you know what alone means?

Hint:

Monon is the neuter of monos.

"I do not pray for these alone"

"Alone=

Only / exclusively.