glorydaz
Well-known member
Funny, I don't see the gospel of grace anywhere there. Maybe you're reading something into that text.
Is Calvinism Wrong?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Funny, I don't see the gospel of grace anywhere there. Maybe you're reading something into that text.
Rosenritter
New member
The subject is the nature of grace, not the scope of blood or nationalities within the body of Christ. Does Hebrews 10:29 say "done despite unto the spirit of the law" or "done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
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glorydaz
Well-known member
Then you need to broaden your understanding, and stop trying to make every mention of grace magically transform into Paul's Gospel of Grace.
Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
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Rosenritter
New member
The gospel is the message of salvation (Romans 1:16, Ephesians 1:13) and Hebrews 10 specifically speaks of salvation in relation to grace. Gospel of grace.
If it isn't speaking about grace then why does it say those who are sanctified will have no more sacrifice for sins and receive a sorer punishment than death under the law of Moses if they do despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Rosenritter
New member
Even the passage from Zechariah you proved above is that same gospel. Grace is an integral part of that gospel. It's even in the context of the crucifixion, "and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced."
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Rosenritter
New member
The code word for "Dispensationalism."
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Rosenritter
New member
And there lies the rub, that such remains your opinion which you continue to preach by buzzword and decline invitations to persuade and establish by fact. You criticized B57 for having predictable one-line retorts, but how are you any different?
"You don't know how to Rightly Divide the word of Truth!"
I could write your responses for you and save 'Old GM' the time.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Sanctified? Set apart as a holy people like the Jews were?
glorydaz
Well-known member
No, nothing about the Gospel of Grace. Why do you keep insisting it does?
When you read Heb. 10, do you see anything that reminds you of what Paul preached? Or is this speaking to the House of Israel regarding some future time?
Hebrews 10:14-16
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Jeremiah 31:33
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Jeremiah 31:33
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Try reading your verses in context. There is a whole world out there waiting to be discovered.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Until you understand that you'll fail at it.
Rosenritter
New member
Considering the context of Hebrews 10 specifies that this is sanctification through the blood of the Son of God, it is sanctification in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 1:2 KJV
(2) Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
Romans 5:9 KJV
(9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Hebrews 10:29 KJV
(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The Jew and the Gentile alike are sanctified by His blood, the same blood of the same Son of God by the same sacrifice for sins. Salvation is for the Jew and the Gentile which cannot be separated from grace.
Glory, this is veering off subject. The question at hand is whether grace is applied conditionally or unconditionally. You reaffirmed that you are not Universalist... which means that you recognize that salvation is not applied unconditionally. There is no salvation for those who will not believe upon the Son of God.
And there is no salvation without grace. It is written "(by grace ye are saved)" and "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." (Ephesians 2:5, John 1:17). And if we needed any further clarification, we are specifically told that Jew and Gentile alike are saved through grace.
Acts 15:9-11 KJV
(9) And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
(10) Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
(11) But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
The topic of grace touches the very nature and character of God. Are God's ways equal? Is he the same yesterday, to day, and for ever? Is he a respecter of persons? Shall we not all be saved through the same grace of the same Lord who so loved the world?
Grace is given to those who have received Christ. If we who have received forgiveness of sins worthy of death deny forgiveness unto others then we despise that grace. There is no difference between Jew or Gentile in this regard. Grace is freely available for all but it is not unconditional.
glorydaz
Well-known member
You give plenty of opinions without a fact in sight. Better a short response than a wordy rendition attempting to mix law and grace.
Rosenritter
New member
Yes, same gospel, same God, same salvation, same grace, all are grafted into the same vine and are the same spiritual Israel.
Romans 11:24 KJV
(24) For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Galatians 3:28-29 KJV
(28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Rosenritter
New member
I don't state interpretations without a healthy mix of supporting scripture. In the context of a conservative theology forum scripture is fact. In contrast, "Dispensationalism" is not.
Romans 3:4 KJV
(4) God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.