Did James teach Salvation/Justification by works ?

beloved57

Well-known member
The answer is no, James the Apostle didnt teach Justification by works before God when he wrote James 2:14-26

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?


15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,


16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?


17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.


18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.


19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.


20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?


23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.


24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?


26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Now many think and that erroneously that James is advocating a work base Salvation or Justification. What James is simply stating is that a God given Faith will be evinced by good works towards our brethren, for it [God given Faith] is the product, fruit of New Birth by the Spirit. Loving our brothers and sisters in Christ is the fruit of the new birth and a genuine spirit wrought faith 1 Jn 5:1

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.



1 Jn 3:14

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

God gives the Spirit in New Birth for the objective of Good works already preordained to walk in Eph 2:8-10
 

genuineoriginal

New member
What James is simply stating is that a God given Faith will be evinced by good works towards our brethren, for it [God given Faith] is the product, fruit of New Birth by the Spirit.
James does not teach that works are evidence of God given Faith.
James teaches that your works are the evidence of your own faith.

God given faith would not need to be tested.
Your own faith does need to be tested.

James 1:2-4
2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.​

 

beloved57

Well-known member
James does not teach that works are evidence of God given Faith.
James teaches that your works are the evidence of your own faith.

God given faith would not need to be tested.
Your own faith does need to be tested.

James 1:2-4
2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.​

Rabbit Trail

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genuineoriginal

New member
Dont do rabbit trails !
Please debate the theological issues presented instead of leaving rabbit droppings.

James does not teach that works are evidence of God given Faith.
James teaches that your works are the evidence of your own faith.
This is consistent with first-century Christian doctrine.

Pelagianism
Pelagianism is the belief in Christianity that original sin did not taint human nature and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without special divine aid.


This changed by the times of the Council of 418 CE and the Second Council of Orange of 529 CE

Council of 418
On 1 May 418 a minor synod (Augustine of Hippo called it A Council of Africa), which assembled under the presidency of Aurelius, bishop of Carthage, to take action concerning the errors of Caelestius, a disciple of Pelagius, denounced the Pelagian doctrines of human nature, original sin, grace, and perfectibility; and it fully approved the contrary views of Augustine.


Council of Orange (529)
The question at hand was whether a moderate form of Pelagianism could be affirmed, or if the doctrines of Augustine were to be affirmed. The determination of the Council could be considered "semi-Augustinian". It defined that faith, though a free act, resulted even in its beginnings from the grace of God, enlightening the human mind and enabling belief.

Classical Protestantism affirms the theology of the Second Council of Orange and has appealed to its conclusions to make a case that the Lutheran and Calvinist doctrines of sola gratia, sola fide, solus Christus, and original sin as total depravity had already been taught much earlier than the 16th-century Protestant Reformation.


The actions of the Roman Catholic church to denounce scriptural truths and embrace the heresies of Augustine led directly to the heresies of the Calvinist/Reformed doctrines presented in the OP.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Please debate the theological issues presented instead of leaving rabbit droppings.

James does not teach that works are evidence of God given Faith.
James teaches that your works are the evidence of your own faith.
This is consistent with first-century Christian doctrine.

Pelagianism
Pelagianism is the belief in Christianity that original sin did not taint human nature and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without special divine aid.


This changed by the times of the Council of 418 CE and the Second Council of Orange of 529 CE

Council of 418
On 1 May 418 a minor synod (Augustine of Hippo called it A Council of Africa), which assembled under the presidency of Aurelius, bishop of Carthage, to take action concerning the errors of Caelestius, a disciple of Pelagius, denounced the Pelagian doctrines of human nature, original sin, grace, and perfectibility; and it fully approved the contrary views of Augustine.


Council of Orange (529)
The question at hand was whether a moderate form of Pelagianism could be affirmed, or if the doctrines of Augustine were to be affirmed. The determination of the Council could be considered "semi-Augustinian". It defined that faith, though a free act, resulted even in its beginnings from the grace of God, enlightening the human mind and enabling belief.

Classical Protestantism affirms the theology of the Second Council of Orange and has appealed to its conclusions to make a case that the Lutheran and Calvinist doctrines of sola gratia, sola fide, solus Christus, and original sin as total depravity had already been taught much earlier than the 16th-century Protestant Reformation.


The actions of the Roman Catholic church to denounce scriptural truths and embrace the heresies of Augustine led directly to the heresies of the Calvinist/Reformed doctrines presented in the OP.

Go start you a thread on that, i dont do rabbit trails
 

Nanja

Well-known member
The answer is no, James the Apostle didnt teach Justification by works before God when he wrote James 2:14-26



Now many think and that erroneously that James is advocating a work base Salvation or Justification. What James is simply stating is that a God given Faith will be evinced by good works towards our brethren, for it [God given Faith] is the product, fruit of New Birth by the Spirit. Loving our brothers and sisters in Christ is the fruit of the new birth and a genuine spirit wrought faith 1 Jn 5:1

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.



1 Jn 3:14

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

God gives the Spirit in New Birth for the objective of Good works already preordained to walk in Eph 2:8-10



Amen Brother !

Those who are Justified by the Blood of Christ Rom. 5:9 according to God's Law and Justice will be Justified consciously, in their own mind, and also by their works before men; that we, being dead to sins should Live unto Righteousness 1 Pet. 2:24, meaning to Live by Faith:

Rom. 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

So as a result of being Justified by the Blood of Christ, every Elect Child of God experiences God-Given Spiritual Life in New Birth, of which Faith is a Fruit of Gal. 5:22.

1 Pet. 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

 

beloved57

Well-known member
Amen Brother !

Those who are Justified by the Blood of Christ Rom. 5:9 according to God's Law and Justice will be Justified consciously, in their own mind, and also by their works before men; that we, being dead to sins should Live unto Righteousness 1 Pet. 2:24, meaning to Live by Faith:

Rom. 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

So as a result of being Justified by the Blood of Christ, every Elect Child of God experiences God-Given Spiritual Life in New Birth, of which Faith is a Fruit of Gal. 5:22.

1 Pet. 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:


Amen Sister !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Jesus followed and obeyed the law and did good works, why would anyone that claims to follow Jesus deviate from His example.

Because Jesus followed and obeyed the Law, many as a result shall be made righteous Rom 5:19

[FONT=&quot]For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


Christ kept/obeyed the Law for many and made them righteous ![/FONT]
 

beameup

New member
James is addressed to the twelve tribes of Israel who are scattered throughout the Roman Empire. That should give you a "clue". Also, James will be of significant value to those who are "left behind" following the rapture of the Body of Christ from the earth.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
beameup

James is addressed to the twelve tribes of Israel who are scattered throughout the Roman Empire.

Yes but its Spiritual Israel hes addressing, the Body of Christ, not national ethnic jews born only naturally. These jews had been begotten by the word of truth, the Gospel James 1:18

18[FONT=&quot]Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

They had Faith in Jesus Christ James 2:1

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

[/FONT]
5 [FONT=&quot]Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

The Kingdom here is a Heavenly Kingdom[/FONT]
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
The answer is no, James the Apostle didnt teach Justification by works before God when he wrote James 2:14-26



Now many think and that erroneously that James is advocating a work base Salvation or Justification. What James is simply stating is that a God given Faith will be evinced by good works towards our brethren, for it [God given Faith] is the product, fruit of New Birth by the Spirit. Loving our brothers and sisters in Christ is the fruit of the new birth and a genuine spirit wrought faith 1 Jn 5:1

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.



1 Jn 3:14

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

God gives the Spirit in New Birth for the objective of Good works already preordained to walk in Eph 2:8-10

However, there's something you don't understand. James 1:1 "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

That verse shows WHO James was speaking to, specifically. He wasn't speaking to the Gentile believers. The Apostle Paul was preaching the 'Gospel of the grace of God' to the Gentiles who were NEVER under the Law.
 

JudgeRightly

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beameup



Yes but its Spiritual Israel hes addressing, the Body of Christ, not national ethnic jews born only naturally. These jews had been begotten by the word of truth, the Gospel James 1:18

18[FONT=&quot]Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

They had Faith in Jesus Christ James 2:1

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

[/FONT]
5 [FONT=&quot]Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

The Kingdom here is a Heavenly Kingdom[/FONT]

How many tribes of gentiles are there in this spiritual Israel? What kingdom were the Gentiles promised?
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Genuine faith in Christ for salvation inevitably produces works that demonstrate its reality. James never says that works produce salvation, not even that faith plus works can save but that good works always always accompany true saving faith.
 
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