The Gospel Verses Predestination

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
What is wrong with some people?

Paul taught what John the baptizer taught!

Deal with that.

John the baptizer got people ready for the Lord by having them repent of their sins.


I see you got yourself banned. You will probably be banned from heaven with your works religion.

Baptism is a public profession of faith in Christ. When we go down under the water that is our death with Christ. When we come up out of the water that is our resurrection with Christ.
 

MennoSota

New member
You want to believe that God is a sinner like you.
Nope, not at all. God is perfect and holy.
You also want to believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born, making him unjust.
Nope. God has chosen his elect from before the foundation of the world. The Bible states this truth. God knows whom will believe and whom will remain in rebellion. We are all accountable for our rebellion.
Salvation always has been by grace through faith.
And God has always been the one who chooses to give the gift of faith. You cannot conjure faith by your own power.
You don't have saving faith. It is not possible for you to believe what you do about God and be saved.
Do you have scripture for that assertion? Aren't you a universalist?
This is why Calvinism is self defeating.
I don't see the correlation.
You claim I don't have saving faith because I believe God chooses whom He wills. You then assert that this is why Calvinism is self defeating.
You make no sense.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Nope, not at all. God is perfect and holy.

Nope. God has chosen his elect from before the foundation of the world. The Bible states this truth. God knows whom will believe and whom will remain in rebellion. We are all accountable for our rebellion.

And God has always been the one who chooses to give the gift of faith. You cannot conjure faith by your own power.

Do you have scripture for that assertion? Aren't you a universalist?

I don't see the correlation.
You claim I don't have saving faith because I believe God chooses whom He wills. You then assert that this is why Calvinism is self defeating.
You make no sense.


There is no scripture any where in the Bible that says God predestinates people to heaven or to hell. if this was a true doctrine the Bible would be full of it. There is nothing.

Calvinism is self defeating simply because it is a faithless doctrine. To believe that God predestinates people to hell is to believe that God is a heartless tyrant.

To believe that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the world is to believe that Jesus is a failure.

You don't have saving faith. A universalist believes that everyone will be saved regardless of what the believe, I don't believe that. I believe that people are justified by faith in God and in his Son Jesus Christ, Romans 5:1.

Your negative beliefs about God and his Son Jesus Christ is what is going to condemn you to hell.
 

MennoSota

New member
Do you close your eyes when reading the Bible or do you just not read it?
There is no scripture any where in the Bible that says God predestinates people to heaven or to hell. if this was a true doctrine the Bible would be full of it. There is nothing.

Calvinism is self defeating simply because it is a faithless doctrine. To believe that God predestinates people to hell is to believe that God is a heartless tyrant.

To believe that Jesus did not atone for the sins of the world is to believe that Jesus is a failure.

You don't have saving faith. A universalist believes that everyone will be saved regardless of what the believe, I don't believe that. I believe that people are justified by faith in God and in his Son Jesus Christ, Romans 5:1.

Your negative beliefs about God and his Son Jesus Christ is what is going to condemn you to hell.
Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Ephesians 1:3-14
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
 

MennoSota

New member
Matthew 25:31-46
Pay attention to verse 34 as it connects with Ephesians 1. Also pay attention to verse 46.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Do you close your eyes when reading the Bible or do you just not read it?Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Ephesians 1:3-14
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.


None of those scriptures teach that God predestinates people to heaven or to hell.

Everything that God does in the New Testament he does corporately, in, by and through his Son Jesus Christ. You are overlooking where it says, "IN HIM". God predestinated Jesus to be the savior of the WHOLE WORLD, 1 John 2:2. Salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. If he only provided salvation for just some and not all he would be unjust. You want to believe that God is unjust and divisive. This means that you don't have faith in him. You also want to believe that Jesus Christ only made a limited atonement, making him a failure. God is no respecter of persons. If you want to be saved you will have to call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13. Which is an act of faith.
 
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MennoSota

New member
None of those scriptures teach that God predestinates people to heaven or to hell.

Everything that God does in the New Testament he does corporately, in, by and through his Son Jesus Christ. You are overlooking where it says, "IN HIM". God predestinated Jesus to be the savior of the WHOLE WORLD, 1 John 2:2. Salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. If he only provided salvation for just some and not all he would be unjust. You want to believe that God is unjust and divisive. This means that you don't have faith in him. You also want to believe that Jesus Christ only made a limited atonement, making him a failure. God is no respecter of persons. If you want to be saved you will have to call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13. Which is an act of faith.
When you reject what God says...there is no longer any hope for you.
Either you accept that God definitively teaches predestination or...you reject what God teaches.
You reject what God teaches. You have no hope.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
When you reject what God says...there is no longer any hope for you.
Either you accept that God definitively teaches predestination or...you reject what God teaches.
You reject what God teaches. You have no hope.

I am not rejecting what God says. There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God predestinates people to heaven or to hell. Calvinism is the doctrine of demons. It teaches that people can be saved outside of Jesus Christ. If you believe that you were predestinated to salvation before the foundation of the world then you don't need Jesus Christ. It is a Christless doctrine that was devised by a heretic.

If you are going to embrace Calvinism you will have to reject that salvation is by grace through faith. Most of the teachings of Paul are that salvation is by grace through faith. You will also have to reject that salvation is a gift from God for all who do nothing more than believe on Jesus.

By embracing a few scriptures that you think teaches predestination, you will be rejecting hundreds of other scriptures that teach salvation is by grace through faith.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
The word "predestinate" only appears in the New Testament four times. It is not in the Old Testament at all.

"Predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son" Romans 8:29.

It is God's will that his people be like Christ.

"Moreover whom he did predestinate" (to be conformed to the image of his Son) them he also called" Romans 8:30.

The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ.

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself" Ephesian 1:5.

The "us" are Christians. It is God's plan that we become the children of God.

"In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him of him who works all things after the counsel of his own will" Ephesians 1:11

The inheritance is Jesus Christ and eternal life. This is God's will for his people.

In these four words "predestination" there is no indication that anyone has been predestinated to eternal life. These four scriptures are about people that are already Christians and God's will for them.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Those 4 times condems your unbelief.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk


Instead of having faith in the doing and the dying of Jesus, you have faith in a false doctrine.

There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell.

Where is the scripture that says God predestinated some one to heaven or to hell?

Salvation is the results of hearing and believing the Gospel, Ephesians 1:13.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Instead of having faith in the doing and the dying of Jesus, you have faith in a false doctrine.

There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell.

Where is the scripture that says God predestinated some one to heaven or to hell?

Salvation is the results of hearing and believing the Gospel, Ephesians 1:13.

You posted 4 scriptures, the word of God that condemns your unbelief on Gods predestination
 

beloved57

Well-known member
pate

"Predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son" Romans 8:29.

Thats predestination to salvation right there. The predestinated one here starts out in this life as by nature a child of wrath even as others Eph 2:2-3 dead in sin ! they will ultimatley be conformed to the image of Christ, thats Salvation/Glorification !
 

JudgeRightly

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pate



Thats predestination to salvation right there. The predestinated one here starts out in this life as by nature a child of wrath even as others Eph 2:2-3 dead in sin ! they will ultimatley be conformed to the image of Christ, thats Salvation/Glorification !
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. - Romans 8:28-30 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans8:28-30&version=NKJV

The passage is speaking about a group of people, not individuals. The GROUP is predestined, not the individual. Notice "these" is used, and not "him," in "these he also called/justified/glorified."

You would have a good argument if it said "him."

But it doesn't, and so your argument falls flat.
 

Right Divider

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And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. - Romans 8:28-30 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans8:28-30&version=NKJV

The passage is speaking about a group of people, not individuals. The GROUP is predestined, not the individual. Notice "these" is used, and not "him," in "these he also called/justified/glorified."

You would have a good argument if it said "him."

But it doesn't, and so your argument falls flat.
:thumb:
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
pate



Thats predestination to salvation right there. The predestinated one here starts out in this life as by nature a child of wrath even as others Eph 2:2-3 dead in sin ! they will ultimatley be conformed to the image of Christ, thats Salvation/Glorification !


No its not. Its God's will that his people be conformed to the image of Christ. Nothing about someone being predestinated to heaven or to hell.
 
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